March 16, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Emotions and Play". The moderator is victoria_angel{Flint}. Enjoy!
<kw_brit> Evening all
<maidenEarth> The moderator is not here yet, what is the polite way to proceed? Shall we wait?
<Justice> no go ahead maidenEarth
* maidenEarth did not intend to jump onto THAT spot...
<kw_brit> Too late now - the chair is yours
<sprin2Life> LOL, maidenEarth
<maidenEarth> but I can barge in and ask if it is normal to cry uncontrollably during play? I experienced that for the first time last night and it was exciting and unnerving at the same time.
<sprin2Life> IT SEEMS i have heard it is maidenEarth
<priceless_whore> i find that very releasing maidenEarth....did you find it releasing or upsetting?
<jen{SE}> yes, i have done that as well as cursed, laughed, etc..
<priceless_whore> i also laugh uncontrollably sometimes
<maidenEarth> Well, I was embarrassed at first, then unnerved because I am very much in control of my emotions in public, I can show my body but not my feelings, so it was a bit alarming.
<maidenEarth> I intellectually understood it as a form of release, and I am certainly wanting to get back there again.
<maidenEarth> I have cursed, laughed, screamed and otherwise made myself known, I'm not a naturally quiet person.
<sprin2Life> LOL, NEITHER AM I maidenEarth
<priceless_whore> i think people think i am insane when i start is an odd laugh..but i dont care..i am in a happy odd place
<maidenEarth> Good, club, 2 memebers, any others? kneels?
<priceless_whore> dont worry about others maidenEarth...only your feelings about your reactions
* jen{SE} is not known for being quiet
<priceless_whore> hell me either
<sprin2Life> i love being vocal
<sprin2Life> it really gets me going
* BernieRoehl looks around for victoria_angel
<jen{SE}> to me the vocalization is part of the emotion and the intensity, it is how i process the scene, if i am forced to be quiet, it changes the dynamics
<BernieRoehl> Hmm... no moderator?
<maidenEarth> I usually don't worry, just that crying is very private, and it is closely linked with parental abuse, so it is confusing. I wasn't upset tho, just curious, and intrigued, and maybe one step closer to sub space?
<maidenEarth> Has anyone here had abuse issues surface during play? Either as a negative force, or as a catharsis?
<maidenEarth> On top or bottom?
* jen{SE} has no abuse in my past
<Achilles{tr}> What might those who play say are the most intense or common emotions they feel during scenes?
<jen{SE}> it covers most of the spectrum at one time or another Achilles{tr} Sir, joy, pleasure, humour, anger
<priceless_whore> i have abuse issues..but i dealt with them prior to being heavily active in the they have never arisen...i do still have abandonment i wont go there during is a red for me...i really think one must do the mental work of abuse before introducing it into play
<jen{SE}> anticipation, fear
<priceless_whore> agreed jen{SE}
<BernieRoehl> I think it's different for Doms. I experience emotion during play, but the range of emotions is more limited than it is for many subs
<Achilles{tr}> That's an interest apsect of this then... emotions of bottoms and Tops. How about the sorts of emotions we might WANT to feel? What are the emotions that come to light for you in a scene which is really good?
<priceless_whore> and i would imagine that true of most Doms BernieRoehl...after all..they cannot let go and lose control
* BernieRoehl nods
<Achilles{tr}> How about pride?
<priceless_whore> i enjoy venting Achilles{tr}..i did not use to consider an aspect of play...but Max encourages it amuses him..and i have really come to enjoy it
<`abi> but I think that a scene is greatly enhanced if a Dom experiences and expresses emotion
<BernieRoehl> Achilles{tr} raises a good point. After all, we all do this for a reason (or multiple reasons), and getting an emotional charge out of it is one of those reasons.
<`abi> which isn't the same thing as losing control
<priceless_whore> agreed abi..yet they cannot lose the control we i think that must limit them
<jen{SE}> agree's with `abi, likes to see the emotion in SE's eyes when we play
<maidenEarth> Oh yes, pride is a tremendous emotion, when you have the feeling you did something very well, it was what your partner needed and you did it.
<`abi> I only very occassionally lose control priceless_whore, but I experience a great range of emotion
<priceless_whore> pride is a tricky one Achilles{tr}
<BernieRoehl> I'm not sure I can come up with a good description of the emotions I experience while playing. Pride is something I experience after a scene, not so much during one, though it may be different for everyone.
<priceless_whore> now see abi..i go there to lose is important to me...and if i am in a life situation where i find it hard to lose control..i find it hard to play heavily
<Achilles{tr}> How about anger? Is that an emotion we might be looking to inspire or experience on either side?
<priceless_whore> absolutly
<jen{SE}> sometimes i think so Achilles{tr} Sir, SE pushes for that from me sometimes, W/we very much enjoy a good wrestling/fight scene sometimes
<maidenEarth> I have channelled anger, very controlled, to discipline unwanted behaviour when other techniques were unsuccessful.
<jen{SE}> though the size difference makes for a one sided fight or a very short one *lol*
<Achilles{tr}> So we have a few who look for anger in some scenes. is anger ever a bad thing in a scene?
<priceless_whore> oh i like just out of control anger maidenEarth
<maidenEarth> does the use of anger diminish as one gains experience?
<jen{SE}> yes i think it is Achilles{tr},
<priceless_whore> yes Achilles{tr}...i think it could be
<jen{SE}> it has the potential of bordering on abuse if done in true anger vs controlled anger
<priceless_whore> i meant my out of control anger..not the Doms..that would be all bad
<Achilles{tr}> How about passion? I've heard some say it is dead sexy scening and others who say the sexiness and passion comes afterwards in the sort of 'making up' portion or aftercare. Opinions?
<BernieRoehl> Anger is a really powerful emotion, and in almost any other context it tends to cloud judgement. However, I know many Doms who find they can focus anger and use it to fuel a scene without having their judgement impaired by it.
<BernieRoehl> I don't do that myself, and would not play if I felt anger, but that shows that everyone is different.
<maidenEarth> In the one instance I remember being spitting mad, I would have injured him in the cbt experience that followed, but the threat was there.
<priceless_whore> i wouldnt want to play with an angry Dom BernieRoehl
<maidenEarth> what if you pushed, and part of you wanted that?
<BernieRoehl> The advice most people get is "don't play in anger", and I think it's generally true
<jen{SE}> agree
<jen{SE}> even true of punishment, it has been said, that punishment should not take place until the anger has passed
<priceless_whore> no maidenEarth..never a good idea..even if i pushed..i would expect the Dom to put me in line..not get angry..that is his job
<maidenEarth> I was pushed, and no other behaviour mod had worked, so, he got what he thought he wanted, only he got it my way, and luckily the lesson stuck with only a gentle reminder occasionally.
<jen{SE}> what about humour?
<BernieRoehl> As to sex and passion... again, I find that it's different for the Dom and the sub. I know many submissives (bless their little... hearts) that can have one orgasm after another during a scene. Doms don't.
<priceless_whore> i think a sub knows faux anger or annoyance from true anger in her Dom
<jen{SE}> i very much enjoy a scene where W/we just laugh and tease our way through it
<maidenEarth> I wonder if there is a gender difference?
<MistressSarcastica> I do, BernieRoehl...
<Achilles{tr}> We can't BernieRoehl. Rolling over and falling asleep in the middle of a scene is bad!
<jen{SE}> rofl!!!
<priceless_whore> i think that play and sex and passion go hand in hand in a scene between those that care for each other BernieRoehl
* BernieRoehl laughs!
<jen{SE}> *lol*, things it goes hand in hand even when they dont *lol*
<priceless_whore> you laugh..but after i orgasm..i want nothing to do with play or sex or any other damn thing..i am a roll over and go to how does a sub fix that?!?!?!
* BernieRoehl agrees with priceless_whore, but also agrees with jen
<maidenEarth> priceless_whore, it seems to be how your body is wired, I am the same.
<BernieRoehl> Actually priceless_whore's and jen's observations are really interesting... I find the emotions I feel in a scene are very different depending on who I'm playing with and what kind of connection we have outside of scene
<jen{SE}> agrees with BernieRoehl, emotions change depending on the ppl involved
<priceless_whore> i think that is the key BernieRoehl..the connection outside the scene is in direct relation to those emotions within it
<BernieRoehl> I suspect that's even more true for subs...?
<Achilles{tr}> Trust is an important element mentioned almost universally when discussing the balance between partners in a BDSM scene. Does trust in your partner preclude fear in a scene?
<priceless_whore> for this one yes BernieRoehl
<maidenEarth> Absolutely not, fear is many faceted.
<maidenEarth> trust that you will not be harmed, but there can be a mountain of hurt in between.
<priceless_whore> yes Achilles{tr}..i have found that it i am harder to scare the longer i am with someone..the more i trust them..there is no doubt in my mind they would not hurt me..or let another..fear is hard to have come into play
<BernieRoehl> I find it's much more of a challenge to inspire fear in someone who I've been playing with for a long time. They *know* I won't harm them, they feel safe with me -- which is often why they choose to play with me. However, that same sense of safety can prevent element of fear from reaching a peak.
<`abi> I call it roller-coaster fear
<`abi> I might know that I'm safe ... I'm still scared as hell
<jen{SE}> i trust SE completely, have been living/playing with Him for 3 years, yet He can still instill fear
<priceless_whore> i cannot honestly say the last time i was afraid.
<priceless_whore> how jen and abi?
<jen{SE}> agrees with `abi
<priceless_whore> scared of what?
<Achilles{tr}> Does fear lead to other emotions when it has passed or, if there is difficulty inspiring fear, is it replaced with something else?
<jen{SE}> He knows my edge and has no fear of pushing it, He knows my fantasies and will make them happen when i least expect it
<`abi> nameless, faceless, generic fear and terror priceless_whore ... similar to what you feel on a roller-coaster
<maidenEarth> the more you know someone the deeper I imagine you can go and begin to poke at the deeper fears?
* Achilles{tr} <<< is pretty darned scary
<jen{SE}> nods, nods
<priceless_whore> i dont understand the fear abi and know he will keep you how can you be afraid..of what?
<priceless_whore> grins at Achilles{tr}..aye you are
<Achilles{tr}> Then how can you not understand the fear priceless_whore? I am scary but have never harmed abi in spite of all you have seen. <smiles inquiringly>
<MistressSarcastica> I think there's a big difference between harm and hurt, priceless_whore. You can be kept safe from harm, but subjected to all manner of hurt, both physical and psychological.
<MistressSarcastica> Breath play is an example: hard to remember that you will, in the end, be safe, when your body is rebelling and trying to get air.
<jen{SE}> nice way to phrase it MistressSarcastica
<BernieRoehl> Good example, MistressSarcastica
<priceless_whore> because i do not know you intimatly Achilles{tr} common sense would trust you..but playing would have an edge to it...that is my can one with the same partner..feel fear?
<`abi> because fear isn't a rational emotion priceless_whore
<priceless_whore> MistressSarcastica..i enjoy the hurt though..that is what i am there for..and deep down i know there is no harm to come..therefore i just go for the ride in trust
<jen{SE}> everytime i play with SE it still has that edge priceless_whore, it does not go away
<priceless_whore> explain please jen{SE}..what are you afraid of?
<jen{SE}> part of it is because i know without doubt He will stretch my limits, He will make me feel uncomfortable, physically and emotionally
<priceless_whore> would you not feel disappointed if he didnt?
<maidenEarth> priceless_whore, I guess the important thing is, do you feel something is lacking because the fear is not there, or hads it been replaced with something equally as compelling?
<jen{SE}> agrees with `abi fear is irrational
* jen{SE} will not run from most things but will run from clothespins *lol*
<priceless_whore> both maidenEarth...i miss the fear..the edge..but i appreciate the trust that allows me to travel to places i would not otherwise go with One i didnt trust as much
<maidenEarth> an acceptable trade off?
<priceless_whore> i become uncomfortable emotionally with things that may happen that i do not wish to..that are painful in some way..emotionally or physically..but never afraid
<jen{SE}> okay how about the dreaded emotion's affect on play , Love *lol*
<Achilles{tr}> Dreaded?
<priceless_whore> and trust go hand in hand
<maidenEarth> I am trying to understand it all myself, it seems overwhelming, learning and growing, and practicing. All of the emotions seem new and fresh, I hope they stay that way for a long time, I like it.
<jen{SE}> *lol*, an old joke Achilles{tr} Sir, it had been often said, love ruins a perfectly good M/s relationship, i don't happen to agree with the statement
<jen{SE}> can't hurt the one you love... etc...
<BernieRoehl> I would modify it to say "changes" rather than "ruins"
<jen{SE}> agrees BernieRoehl
<priceless_whore> me either jen{SE}..if there is no love..i happen to think the people in the relationship are mentally ill
<maidenEarth> I think we hurt the ones we love the most.
<maidenEarth> when was the last time you said something hurtful to somebody you didn't care about?
<jen{SE}> my boss everyday maidenEarth *grins*
<priceless_whore> one can "play" with One they do not love....but they cannot "serve" them
<jen{SE}> sorry, bad sense of humour
<priceless_whore> grins at jen{SE}
<priceless_whore> maidenEarth..i dont think i say things that are hurtful to those i love
<maidenEarth> maybe you have hidden feelings for your boss then jen{SE}?
<jen{SE}> actually, that one i don't agree with i believe you can serve without love, service is another thing altogether
<maidenEarth> You never hurt someone's feelings?
<priceless_whore> i dont think you can be in a long term service relationship..a M/s relationshp..with one you dont love and trust and respect
<Achilles{tr}> Can emotions be amnipulated to improve a scene?
<Achilles{tr}> manipulated
<priceless_whore> i mean yeah i could get the guy a coffee
<priceless_whore> oh yes..hopefully Achilles{tr}
<maidenEarth> I don't mean intentionally, but during an argument, or sometimes even an offhand comment?
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, maidenEarth, my disagreement was you can't serve without love, not that i have never hurt anyone
<Achilles{tr}> What about using contrasting emotions? Tell a joke after cracking a whip to inspire laughter after fear perhaps?
<BernieRoehl> I think jen is distinguishing between "service" and an M/s relationship
<BernieRoehl> They're different for some, not for others
<maidenEarth> I serve ppl I don't care about all of the time, it's my job...
<priceless_whore> i dont know maidenEarth..i havent argued with those i love in a long time
<BernieRoehl> I think they can, Achilles{tr}
<maidenEarth> wow priceless_whore, thats amazing.
<priceless_whore> that is fun Achilles{tr}
<jen{SE}> enjoys humour in a scene
<priceless_whore> not really maidenEarth..i dont believe arguing solves anything
<Achilles{tr}> Any other suggestions of how that has been done in your experience? inspiring jumps in emtions?
<priceless_whore> i have disagreed with them mind you..even Max..but i dont fight or fling out hurtful comments
<jen{SE}> There are M/s relationships that are service oriented, the slave will not have an intimate relationship with the Master just a service based one.
<jen{SE}> element of surprise Achilles{tr} is an enjoyable one
<jen{SE}> do the unexpected
<priceless_whore> i understand jen{SE}..i just dont think it healthy without love..i know it is a strong stance to take in the light of this company...but without a power "exchange" i do not believe a sub servicing a Master without any emotion is healthy
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, emotion takes many faces priceless_whore, respect, adoration, pride in serving One
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<krista-F> but there are many emotions....aren't there?
<jen{SE}> not saying lack of any emotion, saying lack of Romantic love
<priceless_whore> agreed..but with no emotion in return from the One being served jen{SE} is this healthy?
<Achilles{tr}> Modbot sure does had a personal touch, doesn't he?
<jen{SE}> emotions return would be the same, the M respects the s, has pride in the s... etc...
<Achilles{tr}> As a wrap-up... how about everybody specify the one emotion they think is more important in a scene rather than a relationship.. and perhaps one which they feel is inappropriate to rise during play?
* Kilted_One thinks that there are several relationships (short term) that do not have a founding on "love" or love type emotions.....power exchange is more control and giving up control
<jen{SE}> but i happen to agree, i very much enjoy service, but i also very much enjoy the intimate relationship i have with SE
<priceless_whore> i agree Kilted_One..i was speaking long term
<`abi> appropriate: vulnerability, inappropriate: mistrust
<priceless_whore> i do not think a slave serving long term without any emotion returned from the Master in the relationship is healthy
* Kilted_One would think "intensity"
<priceless_whore> my point exactly jen{SE}..if Se treated you with disinterest day in and day out..would that be a satisfying relationship?
<earl{MS}> would think it would be an empty feeling for the slave
<priceless_whore> i think it is important for the sub to feel vulnerable Achilles{tr}..and inappropriate for the Dom to feel anger
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to victoria_angel{Flint} for moderating, and to everyone who participated.
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, again ,placing our version on it, would not have to be disinterest, pride, pleasure, etc.. still exist