March 11 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<NorthLad> Welcome to the Sunday night discussion. Tonight's topic is, "Do long distance D/s relationships work?" Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag.
<NorthLad> Since I suggested this topic let me begin with what I think. Do they work? Pretty much like any relationship, the answer is sometimes yes and sometimes no. I am currently in a very long distance D/s relationship with Lady Persephone. I'm in Kitchener and she is in Missouri. This is the first time either of us has tried to make it work from far away and we think it's very rewarding for us both.
<Lancaster{d}> What is considered long distance
<NorthLad> I'd say anything farther than living in the same city
<NorthLad> I think it works because we have an almost 2 year friendship to build upon. She had my affection, trust and caring long before we chose to take this step. Long distance I think forces you to be even more trusting of the person you are with.
<NorthLad> She has to have faith I am not disobeying orders and that I do what she asks of me. I have to have trust that she isn't playing with every boi that comes her way either. Since I'm a Dom as well, she also has to trust I will only play with people I know and care for.
<dalian> i agree with you NorthLad...it can work
<NorthLad> I could continue rambling but someone may throw a shoe at me so let me shut up and open this up for others to share their experiences and observations.
<silken_lips> it also allows the person to decieve and lie
<Lancaster{d}> i live in Hamilton ,, desire lives in Vermont
<silken_lips> or to vanish with no explaination, and leave a person hanging with no idea why or what
<janiz> putting up my hand...
<NorthLad> yes janiz?
<janiz> i live in Toronto He lives in Detroit
<Lancaster{d}> I would never lie to her
<NorthLad> bathroom is down the hall if that is what you wanted :)
<Lancaster{d}> LOL
<janiz> i think..that although we spent at least a weekend a month together, if not more...it was the "inbetween" times that was more important
<janiz> to have the constant communication
<janiz> even by email..or phone..or whatever
<janiz> just for the record..Wwe agreed.that poly was alright
<NorthLad> yeah, contstant communication is a key
<dalian> distance has its obvious issues...but it's what the two people involved do to bridge the gaps and how they find ways to keep the relationship going in terms of growth
<janiz> i think NL..for us..that was the breaking point
<NorthLad> I am in contact with Lady Persephone every day in some way or the other
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> in these LDR do you really get to knw one another ?
<janiz> i know a lady Persephone.... wondering if she is the same one from one of my chat sites<janiz> autumn...YESSSSSSSSSSSSS...
<dalian> i certainly think so autumn`breeze{JFC}...but it does take a considerable amount of time and effort
<NorthLad> yes autumn`breeze{JFC}, very much
<janiz> for me...i knew this Man..4 years before i spent any "rt" with him
<Lancaster{d}> I have been chatting on the phone with desire for almost an hour every day for three months
<janiz> but Lancaster..how about the physically part
* silken_lips put six months into a LDR
<NorthLad> In a way I think you learn more about someone when you have distance between you
<Grizzly_AL> the best person i know for this topic left befor it started
<silken_lips> but turned out not to know the person in the end
<NorthLad> it becomes a lot more about thoughts and then physical
<subliljan> question to the group.....how does one deal with long distance relationships when in comes to crossing boarders and eithier sub/Domme wish to relocate there on a permanent basis.......the legalities immigration and such must be diffiult
<Lancaster{d}> janiz we will be meeting very shortly ,, she has a small operation to go through and then we will be meeting
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> ok i have never been in one but i know of such a Dom who does a lot of LDR stuff and hides alot
<janiz> i agree silken...eople for whatever reasons...omit important information
<janiz> ahhhh so you mean LDR..online only?....i dont play online
<dalian> i would think that at the time one desides to re-locate on a permanent basis...the legalities become a non-issue
<Lancaster{d}> desire is a nurse ,, the Canadian government has scared all our nurses away ,, now they are practically begging nurses to come to Canada ,, we will have no proplem
<janiz> the legalities of moving are HUGH..dont kid yourself
<janiz> were all these LDR's..only online?
<silken_lips> moving out of country is hard
<subliljan> ........good for You both Lancaster but for one who just wants to relocate perhaps work the difficulties are by no means small.......want to contribute to a relationship but if not allowed to work by there gov't then that a a problem plus health isuues no coverage etc
<silken_lips> no, i had LDR that turned into 24/7 for two months
<silken_lips> ended up coming back because couldnt get work
<janiz> silken..was this someOne from online first?
<subliljan> i agee silken then it make the relationship doomed in teh long run
<Lancaster{d}> subliljan,,, we have discussed that and came to the conclusion that we are old enough to understand this ,, we have agreed to get married if necessary to get around the legalities
<silken_lips> yes he was
<janiz> ahhh...silken.....i understand<NorthLad> Something I have been thinking about is..who has the harder time in a LDR, the sub or Dom? or is it equal?
<subliljan> yes and am happy for You both Lancaster but same sex couples have a bigger problem in this case
<janiz> i think you can gain knowledge over the net....
<dalian> one could use up a pleasure visa and then move to K1 status (think that is what it is called)
<silken_lips> even married Lancaster{d}, you can be turned down
<Lancaster{d}> really?
<BernieRoehl> Good question, NL. I think it's hard on both partners, but in different ways
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> some of LDR start online you can meet spend time and still find out that the Dom is leaving out important info like He is married
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> damn silken are we talking about the same Dom ? lol
<subliljan> thanks fir the info dalian
<BernieRoehl> As a Dom, I've always found it a challenge to extend control over someone who's not physically with me all the time
<silken_lips> dont think so lol
<dalian> i think it's equal NorthLad...both sub and Dom have difficulties
<NorthLad> I would tend to think the Dom has it a bit harder, that's why I am happy to sub LD, but I don't know if I could be a Dom to someone I could't see on a regular basis
<janiz> Bernie..and i as a sub, found it hard to give up control....that wasnt 24/7
<BernieRoehl> I think it's probably harder on whichever one has to do the bulk of the traveling :-)
* BernieRoehl nods at janiz
<que`sarah> Agreed, Bernie and janiz, and tricky to find ways to please someone that's not within arm's reach.
<janiz> i think..that, if you can depend on some time..as i said ..for me it was a weekend a month.... ..but..it was the daily contact that was missing
<Lancaster{d}> i asked the Canadian Immigration about desire ,, they said because she has alian status as residant status in the states all she has to do is find a job in Canada report it to Immigration and than start working right away,, because she is German
<janiz> there were "tasks"..that i had to do... to... show him...
<NorthLad> you bring up a point que`sarah, how do you please someone you aren't within arms reach of?
<destiny-angel> Doesn't like the lonely feelings that come for a few days after being together for a weekend knowing there will not be another for a while
<BernieRoehl> Yes, not having daily contact is difficult. I find I rely very heavily on the phone, even though the internet is free, simply because hearing the sound of someone's voice has always made me feel more connected to them
<janiz> destiny....im laughing..instead of crying..knowing that feeling all to well....
<janiz> hence..joining the Toronto community as it is
<NorthLad> I for instance write her everyday, write a poem every Friday and since I'm sweet I sing to her on the phone
<NorthLad> wait make that..since I am sweet I *don't* sing to her
<BernieRoehl> Yes, destiny-angel -- saying goodbye at the end of a block of time spent together is *really* hard
<dalian> excellent point Bernie...to hear the person's voice adds to that connection
<que`sarah> There are lots of ways, NorthLad -- writing, both one's feelings and as tasks, as you've pointed out.
<Lancaster{d}> agrees with Bernie it is hard ,,, we are both fairly new to the li9festyle so have decided to hold off on sub and Dom part and just hold a regular relationship as best we can
<janiz> thank god for phone cards...*l*
<Lancaster{d}> folks phone calls to the states are free on yahoo
<janiz> but a question...do Yyou find that LDR's are "safe" in a way....
<NorthLad> safe in the sense you are not gonna get tied up by a freak..
<janiz> safe as in.... there is a relationship.... but.. no falling in love perse
<NorthLad> dangerous that your emotions could be played with
<destiny-angel> it is just as easy to fall in love with someone long distance
<janiz> that happens more often then not NL...i think
<LrdTZ> yes
<NorthLad> I love Lady Persephone as much as I have ever loved someone who lived 5 minutes away from me
<victoria_angel{Flint}> says that her Master has no faith in online only relationships - too many creeps out there<BernieRoehl> Safe from falling in love... yes, I suppose that's true, but if love is something you ultimately want then that safety can be a limitation<Lancaster{d}> desire always says she loves me ,, I guess we will find out the truth to it when we meet
<que`sarah> And it's a way to explore feelings and ideas that you might not feel comfortable acting out IRL, sometimes.
<janiz> mmmmm.... i guess im getting confused a bit..which isnt abnormal for me...about RT vs VT LDR's
* MasterGuny says Evening
<Lancaster{d}> I am looking at realtime,,, we do not cyber really ,, just play a bit and make promises
<grrrlkelly> :)
<grrrlkelly> fergot<janiz> again, i cant speak about vt...i never had been involved that way
* BernieRoehl chuckles :-)
<MasterGuny> Both realtime and cyber have there places as long as the individuals are honest
<janiz> ahhh MG....but, its soo much easier to lie vt..dont You think?
<Lancaster{d}> cyber is too phony for me ,, not that I have anything against it
<NorthLad> while most of my contact with Lady Persephone is online I don't consider it cyber
<MasterGuny> It requires a great degree of imagination and trust
<Stevius> I think a big issue with LDR/cyber is that a lot of imagination is involved....which can be good or bad, depending on your perspective
<janiz> but is it a false trust?
<dalian> i disagree with you janiz...i've met just as many phonys and liars r/t as i have online
<Lancaster{d}> Northlad you obey your mistress realtime though ,, not just sitting in front of the computer ,, to me you are realtime
<janiz> oh dalian..i agree completly with you
<NorthLad> well to me I am realtime too so glad we agree :)
<MasterGuny> When I first Started on AOL I found others like me inda Gregorian based but learned right from the start that honesty was the first block
<destiny-angel> There is something about being able to look into someones eyes
<janiz> but..i like to think...that maybe..RT..i would find out soone
<NorthLad> I don't know if I would have said yes to a LDR if I didn't have a long time to know her
<janiz> i think of this One that put this long message in the E=3Dgroup...and i met him for coffee.....only to find out..his 5 years of experience was strictly vt
<NorthLad> Lady Persephone was the woman who told me what BDSM was, before her I just thought I was a pervert :)
<Lancaster{d}> LOL
<janiz> perverts are a good thing NL
<MasterGuny> You can do that and know one another alot better on meeting if everything is up front
<NorthLad> I like sluts more
<NorthLad> but thats just me :)
<MasterGuny> I had slaves from Texas To washington to Oregon
<janiz> perverted sluts?..*l*
<Lancaster{d}> I told desire i was a new Dom right away ,, I am always honest,,,
<que`sarah> Sluts rule. :)
<dalian> you get to know people eventually...whether they are r/t or v/t...eventually the persona emerges regardless
<MasterGuny> It was hard but all that was available to me then
* BernieRoehl high-five's que`sarah
<Lancaster{d}> hopes desire keeps her word that she is a slut to her man
<MasterGuny> It hurts when you build a relationship and someone has lied at the very core
<MasterGuny> They get off the plave and they are not tall dark and hansome nor Pamela Sues better looking sister
<Lancaster{d}> or else,, that would be dissapointing ,, one of the things that is involved in long distance is reading the people to figure if they are being totally honest before you waste a lot of time and money
<MasterGuny> plane
<MasterGuny> The biggest problem I found was that they were not Canadians nor I an American and neither wanted to change that
<Lancaster{d}> I have sent plenty of pictures to desire ,, making sure she knows what I look like
<BernieRoehl> That's always puzzled me a bit -- the fact that people tell really obvious fibs about themselves, to people they hope to meet in person someday
<MasterGuny> my worst case was a sub that tried to kill herself in my home
<que`sarah> Yes, and even if the emotions and feelings that developed online were quite real, it must be difficult to trust in the relationship when such an important part of it is so obviously a lie.
* BernieRoehl nods
<MasterGuny> She new she could not stay but did not want to go back to her life there and it almost cost her ..her life
<NorthLad> I lie but in the opposite way..Lady Persephone thinks I have a small penis..won't she be surprised :P
<Lancaster{d}> MasterGuny did you want her to stay
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> certainly can't change your appearance
<que`sarah> That must have been very difficult for both of you, MasterGuny; how did you deal with it?
<NorthLad> <--lack of sleep and weird humor dont mix people
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<MasterGuny> people will write things on here they can never say or will not say face to face it can build incredible bonds
<Lancaster{d}> i sent desire a picture of mine ,, making sure she knew what she was going to get
<MasterGuny> Yes I wanted her to but it is almost imposible for that to happen legally
<BernieRoehl> There's certainly an element of anonymity that gives some people a chance to say what they really feel
<Lancaster{d}> Master guny I was going to bring that up earlier
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> and You are a cutie Lancaster{d}
<Lancaster{d}> thank-you breeze ,, I`m blushing
<MasterGuny> You have to remember this was even before IRC and I was the token Canadian
<MasterGuny> now you can form an online relationship with someone even in your own neibourhood
<Lancaster{d}> desire and I learned more about each other online and on the phone i am sure than we would have accomplished in person
<BernieRoehl> I'm curious... has anyone ever gotten into a long distance relationship with someone they never intended to meet face-to-face?
<MasterGuny> I Do Not recommend cross border shopping
<dalian> no me Bernie
<dalian> not
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> yes
<victoria_angel{Flint}> yes
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> more of a friendship
<MasterGuny> Mine started out that way but did not end up that way
<Lancaster{d}> Bernie I have had them and never met ,, but the intention was to meet
<BernieRoehl> What was it like, knowing that there would *never* be a physical aspect to the relationship?
<MasterGuny> Long distance is very costly and time consuming
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> it was hard there was a desire too meet but he was married and he was frightened if we did meet it would ruin his marriage
<Lancaster{d}> free net to phone calls on Yahoo anywhere in the states from Canada
<MasterGuny> uh hu but there is still the time that is all consuming
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> but then it helped to talk to someone and blow off steam when needed
<BernieRoehl> Does that work well, Lancaster{d}? Any problems with lag or poor quality?
<MasterGuny> Phone bills can be 1000+ per month
<silken_lips> netmeeting also works well
<silken_lips> and is free
<MasterGuny> Besides you have to start with if this works do I want to move to the US or are they willing and understand the complications of moving here?
<Lancaster{d}> Bernie i have high speed sympatico ,, I am hard of hearing ,, I bought an expensive headset ,, it sounds better than phone and absolutly no lag ,, better than the phone by large ,, I have a volume controll and can turn it up also
<Lancaster{d}> told her right away if she did not want to come to canada ,, not to waste her time talking to me because I was not moving to the States
<MasterGuny> that is easier than it sounds
<dalian> yes...keeping it realistic throughout helps....one will have to pick up and move eventually and you have to keep focused if that is the goal and deal with the difficulties
<NorthLad> for those who are or have been in LDR, what do you do about the lack of physical contact? play on the side? Go without? lots of cold showers?<MasterGuny> to move to Canada they have to apply from outside of Canada meet the qualifications and wait over a year before being approved
<Lancaster{d}> MaterGuny we have looked into already
<MasterGuny> Cyvber or phone sex...back to the imagination and net meeting:-=)
<NorthLad> In my relationship I am allowed to sub to someone with her prio permission. I can Dom anyone I see fit as she trusts my judgement
<MasterGuny> those qualifications are not easy either
<MasterGuny> If you have looked into it then you know how hard it really is
<Lancaster{d}> desire has alian status as a residant of the States ,,, all she has to do is get a job in Canada report to immigration and they will allow her to work because she comes from Germany originally <MasterGuny> huh?
<NorthLad> I also quite frankly get more from the intellectual aspects then I ever have from being flogged :)
<Lancaster{d}> and is not an American citizen
<MasterGuny> She first has to apply from outside canada to work here
<dalian> it is very difficult...and you certainly have to be patient through the long process...it won't happen in a year
<Lancaster{d}> I was told she does not have to apply from outside the states
<Lancaster{d}> or Canada
<Lancaster{d}> she can be here
<MasterGuny> Never heard of any special treatment for Germany..there use to be for Austrailia and britian but even that isd greatly reduced
<Lancaster{d}> if you are really doubting me on that I will check into it again
<Lancaster{d}> to make sure
<MasterGuny> If she is cought working here without prior apoproval it can mean imdeiate deportation
<MasterGuny> a good friend of mine is on the RCMP imigration task force
<Lancaster{d}> Master Guny she would have to report before she starts to work
<Lancaster{d}> she can only work for the government anyway ,, she is a nurse
<BernieRoehl> A question for everyone -- why LDR? Is it because it's hard to find a partner in your local area?
<Lancaster{d}> yes Bernie
<Lancaster{d}> looked for almost a year
<silken_lips> sometimes its because the person you talk to is interesting, and you dont realise they are not close to you until after the attraction starts
<NorthLad> For me Bernie it is LDR because you can't choose where the person you care for lives<Lancaster{d}> did not see anyone that was for me
<kathryn_kw> for some including me it is bernie
<dalian> yes Bernie...and it is also the chance meeting of two people who happen to have alot in common
<kathryn_kw> lol still looking :)
<MasterGuny> Mine was because it was brought me out to real..didn't know it exhisted before that
<silken_lips> thats why i have started looking more in this area rather than the other channels that attract people for all over
<kathryn_kw> its just making the " right " connection
* BernieRoehl nods
<kathryn_kw> there are "available Dom/mes and subs
<silken_lips> after my LDR experiences i decided to look here instead of far away
<silken_lips> out of country is too hard, too many red tapes in the way
<BernieRoehl> I know many people who have done the same thing, silken_lips
<silken_lips> and even out of province becomes harder, money for travel etc
<MasterGuny> we as a comunity have never had it so good as we do today
<BernieRoehl> After a few LDR's, they start putting more emphasis on being able to meet regularly in person
<silken_lips> so i am keeping the two hour rule now
<Lancaster{d}> I am 5`-4" ,, don`t want a woman taller than me ,, that puts out 50% of woman , I want a woman who understands I am a Dom and wish to spank her but , that discludes how many more woman ,, I do not go out that much ,, the chances of me finding a woman are very slim ,, If I did not go to the internet with an open mind* BernieRoehl agrees with MasterGuny
<kathryn_kw> i agree silken.. but.. a ldr can be good as well
<kathryn_kw> you can have everything but the physical/sexual
<kathryn_kw> but we get to a point where we need the physical etc as well
<kathryn_kw> and thats when it can be rough
<NorthLad> so with only 10 minutes or so left before 10, let's end on a positive note :) Anyone have a LDR success story to share?
<silken_lips> that was the problem i had with one, he was in florida
<BernieRoehl> To me, the physical (and yes, the sexual) is an important part of a realtionship
<Lancaster{d}> hhhhmm no successes
<BernieRoehl> Well, it depends on what you mean by "long distance relationship"
* dalian is too coy to fess
<silken_lips> i think ldr sucess is not common
<NorthLad> then we have to look at Bernie and Sarah and say awwwwwww :) how cute they are :)
<subliljan> listening to this the last hour i would have to say no success
<silken_lips> it works for a while, then seems to hit stumbling blocks of one sort or another
* autumn`breeze{JFC} agrees with NorthLad
<BernieRoehl> Well, Kingston to Waterloo is a 4 to 5 hour drive, so I guess we count as an LDR
<subliljan> i would say You do Bernie congrads
<BernieRoehl> So yes -- there's one success story, though we met in real life first and only use the net and phone to keep in touch
* que`sarah isn't sure if we're allowed to call it that when we're sitting in the same room together tho :)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Lancaster{d}> I am going to try very hard to make this one work ,, we are lucky that desire is a nurse ,, I do believe it will make it easier for us
* BernieRoehl reaches out to touch Sarah -- without using long distance!
<NorthLad> so sit on the other side of the room
* que`sarah yelps
<Lancaster{d}> Immigration told me that her profession is high demand and that things will be made easier for us
<subliljan> could be right Lancaster all the best
<silken_lips> has she made sure she will be able to work here, checked on the provincial qualifications
* silken_lips knows that in the states different standards apply and you need to write the exam<Lancaster{d}> silken thanks for mentioning that
* silken_lips is an RPN
<Lancaster{d}> will check into that
* silken_lips nods
<Lancaster{d}> she is an ER nurse with lots of training
<silken_lips> depends on when she wrote her exam there, and what the standards were at that time
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i wish You well Lancaster{d}
<Lancaster{d}> thank-you
<Lancaster{d}> where do I go to find the info to make sure before we face dissapointmen ,,,
<NorthLad> well I see by the clock on the wall, it's time to wish you all... goodnight, so long, fair well, bye bye
<Lancaster{d}> ah hell if all else fails I`ll just get her pregnant
<Lancaster{d}> LOL
<BernieRoehl> Congratulations to NorthLad on moderating his first discussion!
<NorthLad> oops, Wayne and Schuster moment there
<victoria_angel{Flint}> that will work Lancaster - friend locally did just that ...
<Lancaster{d}> please silken
<dalian> well done NorthLad
<NorthLad> and our discussion comes to an end officially, stay around and mingle..coffee and cake is over by Justice^