March 9, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Swinging and BDSM". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Kilted_One> ohhh Ok thanks abigaille, glad I asked first
<workinhardd> 12oh yes please do
<jewel`{F}> hi ModBot
<Kilted_One> so anyone care to open
<kw_brit> So to kick off. Anyone tried swinging from the ceiling?
<earl{MS}> no but would like to
<Kilted_One> only the one time when the ladder fell away
<jewel`{F}> so would i
<jewel`{F}> lol KO
<jewel`{F}> were You putting up the star on the Christmas tree?
<kw_brit> Hanging by the ankles is very good for the back so I'm told
<Kilted_One> I have suspended my corset cage and had it swinging
<`abi> hi abitbent
<abitbent> hiya abi
<Kilted_One> do you think there is crossover between the two and if so do you think it has gotten more prevalent or less revalent today??
<kw_brit> There is a bdsm in the West Country of the UK which has a room where you can truss up someone in clingfilm and turn them on a rack.
<kw_brit> Doh I meant a bdsm hotel
<earl{MS}> now that sounds like fun, kw_brit
<kw_brit> I think that general attitudes in the world we live in have played a factor in that KO
<jewel`{F}> well KO it seems any play party i have been to that Your Pillory is at there has been someone swinging from it
<Kilted_One> can you explain that a little more kw_brit
* Kilted_One laughs, yup that was what it was made for
<kw_brit> Well so many taboos are considered mainstream now. Think about it - anyone wearing pvc or latex 10 years ago must have been a fet fan, but now they can just be fashionb followers.
<kw_brit> The sanctity of marriage is lessening each year
<kw_brit> Barriers are breaking down across the board that no-one would have touched a few year s ago
<breezie{JFC}> i have mixed feelings about BDSM/swinging. i ask myself could i be a swinger? No but could i combine BDSM and some swinging? yes
<Kilted_One> so are you saying that there is more crossover between BDSM and swinging, kw_brit??
<kw_brit> Yes, but not exclusively to bdsm. Attitudes are changing in the society as a whole that make the 'swing' thing less of a taboo
<abitbent> is that a bad thing?
<kw_brit> And indeed the whole bdsm culture
<breezie{JFC}> no abitbent each to their own kink
<jewel`{F}> KO are we talking swinging as in the "swapping partners for a quick romp of sex" or are are we also meaning just playing with more than one partner?
<Kilted_One> does anyone see any problems/advantages in the mixing of the two <swinging/BDSM>
<kw_brit> Everyone has a kink, breezie, it's just a matter of being tru to yourself & finding it
<Kilted_One> whatever your definition happens to be jewel, pick one
<breezie{JFC}> advantages if you are bi to combine the 2
<concubinary> well i have been given to other Dominants when i was owned. That is swinging but also a base example of the fact i was a slave
<kw_brit> Best of both worlds eh?
<breezie{JFC}> very true kw_brit
<jewel`{F}> i have only been attending events for a year, i have noticed quite a few that will play with different partners because of liking to try different things
<Kilted_One> sure it is really swinging or merely a facet of BDSM?? concubinary??
<kw_brit> One does not need to swing to enjoy bdsm KO
<concubinary> playing sexually with others was swinging but the fact that i was involved on order is bdsm - i was a slave, i did as told. Bottom line then for me was D/s and not swinging.
<Kilted_One> one doesnt need swinging at all to enjoy BDSM, kw_brit
* Kilted_One nods in agreement with concubinary, that is how I think I would see it too
<kw_brit> True enough. And it is fair to say that one can swing merrily without a b, d s or m coming into the game.
<concubinary> i saw sexual play with others (if desired by my Master/Mistress) as part of my submission. The same is true of a myriad of other tasks
<Kilted_One> would the definition of "swinging" not involve (2) couples exchanging partners??
<abitbent> Mixing the two however offers a chance for swingers to dominate local bdsm events... claiming to be kinky, but only seeking with the intent to have multiple partners.
<lilmunchkin> that is what i always thought of it as KO
<kw_brit> I always thought that it meant looking outside of the immediate relationship for some kind of gratification KO.
<concubinary> it seems that way Kilted One but those couples may be D/s couples too and so are they really swinging or engaging in the fullness of the power exchange?
<kw_brit> As long as it is not sordid or hidden.
<breezie{JFC}> i thought swinging was multiple ppl 3 or more
<kw_brit> Sounds more like a party breezie
<concubinary> i mean, if i am a true slave than yes i will sleep with who i am told to. i will accept Master/Mistress doing as he/she pleases
<lilmunchkin> i know of a couple who swing but only for sex and not bdsm
<breezie{JFC}> lol could be depending what the play was
<earl{MS}> concubinary, this one is in the same situation, just a matter of obediance
<Kilted_One> that sounds closer to a poly thing that swinging though, concubinary??
<concubinary> i have never been involved with poly - have just been owned and lent or given at parties
<Kilted_One> my picture of "swinging" is throwing your keys into the pile and then picking one at random
<SirBear> never works that easy Kilted_One
<kw_brit> Isn't that car swapping?
<breezie{JFC}> i think those rules have changed KO
<earl{MS}> the old key party game
<concubinary> i thought poly was more of an ongoing relationship
<rrrtp> my luck I would get my own
<lilmunchkin> the couple i know meet couples on the net and then met in person after talking to them for awhile on the net
<kw_brit> I have known couples to go to swing parties and screw themselves round a room full of people & end up with a baby of unknown parentage.
<breezie{JFC}> that to me is swinging also lilmunchkin
<rrrtp> I have met people only through Tab & Tryst
<lilmunchkin> the couple loves it cause it brings spice to their love life
<breezie{JFC}> can you combine the 2 BDSM and swinging?
<kw_brit> Rubbing pizza on a womans breasts can add spice to a lovelife.
<BernieRoehl> I know a number of people who do
<Kilted_One> combine or rub pizza, Bernie??
<BernieRoehl> (who combine bdsm and swinging, that is -- not rub pizza on breasts)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<SirBear> lol
<rrrtp> I'm going to start delivering pizza
<breezie{JFC}> so the BDSM play with multiple ppl and sex
<breezie{JFC}> i want extra olives please
<kw_brit> bdsm can be shared & the sex can stay sacred
<Kilted_One> so if they can be "combined" is there some basis difference to describe the two??
<SirBear> yes breezie{JFC}.... in the swinging lifestyle we just call that a theme night
<rrrtp> thanks for the company...gotta go
<breezie{JFC}> very true kw_brit
<kw_brit> I always deliver extra meat with my pizzas breezie
<workinhardd> and dipping sauce kw_brit?
<kw_brit> Always LOL
<BernieRoehl> There are a number of people who do combine swinging with BDSM, and they seem to feel that they're two great things that go great together
<breezie{JFC}> so you have swinger who dabble in BDSM and then you have BDSM'ers with swinging?
<SirBear> yep
<breezie{JFC}> ok
<SirBear> :)
<BernieRoehl> Some people like strawberries, others like ice cream. Some like strawberries *and* ice cream. To each their own....
<breezie{JFC}> ok then i am a sub with a sub sister who loves the BDSM and the sex with Sir and sis
<BernieRoehl> There you go
<breezie{JFC}> darn life is great
<kw_brit> But as soon as you let a slave be whipped by a third party, have you not in some way 'swung'. I.E. gone outside the boundaries of your own relationship to add something extra?
<SirBear> lol
<Kilted_One> that sounds more like poly to me though breezie{JFC}??
<BernieRoehl> I think it depends on what those boundaries were initially, kw_brit
<breezie{JFC}> this is where i need clarification
<breezie{JFC}> ok then me sub loves BDSM with Sir and has sex with Him and other subs?
<breezie{JFC}> not in relationship with one sub
<kw_brit> Well if it starts as a journey that two people share, which is enhanced because others share their tastes, at some point there must be a line that is crossed to become 'swing'?
<Kilted_One> my definition (rightly or wrongly) of swinging (or swapping) is for two or more couples to "swap" partners
<kw_brit> Reminds me of an old joke KO
<kw_brit> Two guys sitting in bed
<kw_brit> One says to the other " I dont think much of this wife swapping!"
<lilmunchkin> so that would mean a Dom/Master and his sub/slave would get together with another Dom/Master and his sub/slave and play together
<BernieRoehl> So who here has is in that overlap betwen the swinging and BDSM communities?
<breezie{JFC}> gee BernieRoehl if it means we play with multiple subs having sex and BDSM play then we have done it
* BernieRoehl keeps count
<BernieRoehl> One so far
<SirBear> count me
* `abi snuggles Damian
* Kilted_One smiles....he is all cold and wet abigaille
<kw_brit> What about yourself Bernie? Where would you class You?
<BernieRoehl> Good question, kw_brit
<BernieRoehl> I would say "kinky and poly, with a strong primary relationship"
<kw_brit> A finger in every pie, as we say in the old country.
<breezie{JFC}> good answer BernieRoehl
<`abi> you have no idea where his fingers have been
<BernieRoehl> One can never have too much pie
<`abi> or too many fingers?
* BernieRoehl smiles at abi
<Kilted_One> tough buying gloves for some of us though abigaille
<BernieRoehl> As long as they're latex
* Kilted_One scrolling back to lilmunchkin's comment, if you mean "playing as in BDSM style playing, then I dont see this as "swapping" or "swinging" as this is done for sexual (as in intercourse) reason
<lilmunchkin> what if sex is also involved KO?
<Kilted_One> then I think you have crossed the two together and indulged in both BDSM and swinging
<kw_brit> As long as no-one is betrayed or hurt by what you do, then do what you want to do.
* BernieRoehl tends to agree
<Kilted_One> I think we are only trying to "quantify" the two kw_brit, not justify them
<kw_brit> Then it is fair to say that they are independant of each other, but (as with most things) can tend to intertwine
<ambah> maybe the line has been blurred
<lilmunchkin> i agree kw_brit
<kw_brit> Like cables behind computers, always a bugger when you need to unplug one.
<BernieRoehl> Is it more common for BDSM people to start exploring swinging, or vice-versa?
<BernieRoehl> In other words, do kinky people begin exploring the sharing of partners sexually, or do people in the swinging community tend to be drawn to alternative sexual practices, like kink?
<_dove> i think it can go both ways, BernieRoehl
<kw_brit> Well as soon as someone asks their partner to put on bit of leather are they not exploring the edges of bdsm?
<BernieRoehl> Agreed, _dove... just wondering which of the two communities is branching out into the other more frequently
<kw_brit> Everyone has a kink - It's just a matter of exploring what bakes your cake (or floats your boat)
<drauma{MzTyger}> but, somie people discover BDSm in the context of an existing relationship, others start single
* BernieRoehl nods at drauma{MzTyger}
<drauma{MzTyger}> those who explore it single have a natural tendency to deal with multiple partners
<drauma{MzTyger}> and, some Dominants do not restrict themselves to a monogamous BDSM relatinoship
<kw_brit> When your single you can play for any team <drauma{MzTyger}>
<BernieRoehl> That's true, drauma{MzTyger}. And what about when they do enter a relationship, do they tend to thing in terms of continuing to explore with different partners?
<drauma{MzTyger}> well, you can visit the tryout camps at least
<kw_brit> If you are open about what u want from a relationship when it begins you should be able to explore all roads together.
<drauma{MzTyger}> think, maybe so...doing is another issue tho, depends on details of the partnership
<drauma{MzTyger}> there are some fairly common BDSM scenarious that require multiple persons...
<BernieRoehl> My impression is that relatively few couples in the BDSM community are completely exclusive when it comes to play
<drauma{MzTyger}> and these might not always involve sex of course
<kw_brit> "Variety is the spice of life" they say
<BernieRoehl> Quite right -- sex and BDSM are not the same
<Kilted_One> does there have to be sex to make it swinging??
<kw_brit> I would have thought so KO
<SirBear> depends on your definition of sex I think KO
<_dove> A lot of this depends on the definitions of all the terms
<BernieRoehl> Good question, KO. And of course, there are many different things that some people would consider "sex".
<drauma{MzTyger}> I would have that expectation KiltedOne
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<drauma{MzTyger}> but, I am not a swinger, so
* Kilted_One forgot that a certain Prez greyed the definition of as in sexual intercourse is what I meant
* SirBear throws my keys into the middle of the room and hopes for the best
<drauma{MzTyger}> LOL
<BernieRoehl> So the question then becomes... is playing with multiple partners considered "swinging", even if there's no intercourse involved?
<kw_brit> You'd better hope for a snowplough
<sprin2Life> only if your swinging from the rafters bernie
* Kilted_One thinks that is not swinging as there is no swapping or sexual intercourse taking place
<drauma{MzTyger}> some seek out prostitutes for intimacys other than fornication
<kw_brit> Full swinging is a long way away from bdsm playing
<drauma{MzTyger}> hmmm, perhpas on polyamorous gourp 'swinging' wiht another...
<drauma{MzTyger}> group
<kw_brit> I still think that polyamorous sounds like something odd involving parrots, sorry.
<sprin2Life> lol
<lilmunchkin> poly want a cracker
<Kilted_One> you are getting mixed up with a German there kw_brit...Poly Von a Kracker
<drauma{MzTyger}> I have seen swingers clubs that have nighhts for 'threesomes'
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.