March 3, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight is Newbie Night, so feel free to ask questions about anything you like. The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<heart_of_gold4> no others minds too.i've heard it lol
* mist{LW} lines up for another huggle, pretending to be missed
* BernieRoehl smiles at mist and gives her an extra hug
<BernieRoehl> So... newbie night! Anyone here a (relative) newbie?
<heart_of_gold4> sure lol
* dalian gives Bernie an extra big hug since she rarely gets to see him
* dalian raises her hand
* BernieRoehl hasn't seen dalian in ages, and gives her a big hug
<BlackOrchid> Well, it depends, Bernie. I'm a newbie to EhBC and KW, but not to BDSM. Does that count? ;)
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<BernieRoehl> Sure, everything counts! :-)
* mist{LW} wonders what the newbie cut off time limit is and is she tarnished now.........
<heart_of_gold4> okay, bernie
<heart_of_gold4> i have a question?
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, heart_of_gold4
<BlackOrchid> Although I'm not sure what a newbie to EhBC and KW would need to know
* BernieRoehl waits as heart_of_gold4 types in her (lengthy?) question
<heart_of_gold4> well am very outspoken sub, my master allows me such, but i find am not like some others who are very quiet and only speak when spoken, am i doing something wrong
<BernieRoehl> My opinion is that if you're pleasing you're Master, then no -- you're not doing anything wrong
<BernieRoehl> However, I can certainly see other points of view on that
<mist{LW}> not at all heart_of_gold4, my Master would smack me if i was to speak only when spoken to, He didnt want a puppet
* mist{LW} smiles
<BlackOrchid> In my own experience everybody's style is different. If your Master says it's ok then it's fine. Other people may not think so, but it's your Master's opinion is more important
* BernieRoehl reads the question again, and thinks
<spiced`> you find the style that works for your relationship
<BernieRoehl> I notice you say he allows you to be outspoken -- which of course is different than being pleased by it
<oasis{Omy}> I am allowed an opinion as long as i remain respectful and accept any flame mail that comes my way
<BlackOrchid> LOL - well, there ya go. You're living by the rules set down, I assume?
<heart_of_gold4> yes oasis, the same, as long as im respectful, he does not want a puppet
<heart_of_gold4> yes, i am
* BernieRoehl nods
<BlackOrchid> Sounds like you're doing fine.
<BernieRoehl> It sounds like all is well, then
<`abi> is it not somewhat judgemental to equate not being outspoken with being a puppet?
<cuddlesub{B}> and why would those who do not speak out be called "puppets"?
* BernieRoehl smiles at BlackOrchid
* cuddlesub{B} smiles at abi
<`abi> it is possible to be reserved without being a puppet
<jan> Greetings A/all
<heart_of_gold4> was very concerned that i might be doing wrong in the eyes of other doms
<spiced`> it is also proper to follow your masters protocol in public or any other time
<BlackOrchid> It's only the eyes of YOUR Master that matter. Let him worry about the others.
<BernieRoehl> True enough -- I certainly know a lot of submissives who are very thoughtful and even opinionated, who (with their Master's or Mistresses help) have learned when to express their views and when to just listen
<heart_of_gold4> okay thank you BlackOrchid :)
<BernieRoehl> Don't worry about other doms, heart_of_gold4 -- there's only one you need to please
<oasis{Omy}> i understand.. sometimes what we do does reflect on our Dom's.. in the end.. if something happens.. am sure your Dom will speak his mind
<BlackOrchid> After all, if the idea is that you are pleasing your Master, then it is up to him to answer someone's concerns
* oasis{Omy} smiles lovingly
<heart_of_gold4> sir sillver(me) i respect heart's opinions being new myself and think that type of communication is important now...maybe different later too
<BernieRoehl> I was speaking with a submissive the other day, one who's new to the public scene, and she had an interesting question
<`abi> she wanted to know if you were over 18?
* BlackOrchid likes interesting questions
* BernieRoehl laughs
* BlackOrchid laughs
<BernieRoehl> No, that's what I wanted to know about *her*, but that's another story... :-)
<heart_of_gold4> lol
<Omy> Boxers BernieRoehl :)
<oasis{Omy}> we all know Bernie is barely legal
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<BernieRoehl> She asked "how should an unattached submissive behave at a play party or fet night?". I gave her an answer that (in retrospect) was a bit trite and simplistic, and I'm hoping people here might come up with something a bit more profound and useful. :_)
<DebUTaunt> what was your answer?
<DebUTaunt> some of us may agree.
* BlackOrchid wants to know BernieRoehl's answer too
<BernieRoehl> "Be yourself"
<BernieRoehl> (see -- I told you it was trite!) :-)
<jan> < agrees
<mist{LW}> that was it Bernie???
<spiced`> be respectful
<BernieRoehl> Pretty much. I was a bit more long-winded, but that's what it boiled down to.
<Omy> I believe Bernie I would of said somethign along the lines yourself..falsehoods are easily discovered. Relax and take it slow. When your heart is no longer beating in your throat, then proceed
<mist{LW}> dont be pushy, sit back and watch, and let the Dom approach you
<MistressSarcastica> Shocking advice...
<BlackOrchid> I suppose the best advice I've ever given someone who's an unattached submissive is to always try to bring someone you know so they can introduce you to people that interest you
<`abi> well, that's assuming that "yourself" is polite, respectful and reasonably civilized .. otherwise you should act like someone who is
<BernieRoehl> It's the answer everyone seems to give to questions like that, but I could tell by her reaction that she was hoping for something a bit more than that.
<`abi> what was she hoping for?
<spiced`> single sub protocol??
<DebUTaunt> but is the goal to meet people or to attract a special someone? not always the same thing or same approach
<BernieRoehl> Bringing someone with her is good advice, and I did suggest that
<BlackOrchid> Well, I was saying that based on the assumption that the person is a new single sub, as opposed to an experienced one
<Omy> That would be a newly experienced sub no BlackOrchid?
<BernieRoehl> I suspect (based on other things we talked about) that she wanted to know how to indicate her availability in a polite, socially acceptable way.
<oasis{Omy}> some may feel like there is a certain "way" to act... soo much of the vanilla preconceptions fallow us
<spiced`> why wait for the dom to approach?
<BlackOrchid> I've always found having someone make introductions on a sub's behalf a great approach
<DebUTaunt> I'd agree totally
<Omy> Well Bernie...walking upto someone of interest and saying HI is a good beginning
<DebUTaunt> I don't mind at all being approached by a sub for a polite meeting -- but he/she better not hang around unless invited to do so
<oasis{Omy}> thats a scarey concept to a single sub new to the scene
<mist{LW}> i ment not to go up and say i am a sub, do you want me lol
<BernieRoehl> It works for me, Omy, but then again I'm a fairly gregarious person. My sense is that she's not, and is worried (perhaps too much) about committing some social "faux pas"
<mist{LW}> by all means circulate, say him etc
<dalian> I know that I would have difficulty just walking up to a Dom at a play party
<mist{LW}> err hi
<Omy> Seemed to work for you okay my only went OHH SHIT!!! after your realized who I was
* BernieRoehl smiles at Omy's oasis
<heart_of_gold4> lol
<BlackOrchid> One friend who is very gregarious managed to go up to Dommes he found interesting and introduce himself and ask if it was okay to speak to her for a few minutes. I thought that was a polite approach
* oasis{Omy} groanssss
<Omy> Well they could walk around offerign a flooger to all they met
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<BlackOrchid> I've met some guys who practically do that!
<oasis{Omy}> many new subs are scared/nervous /excited.. i find it easier to spot them help them feel comfortable..
* jen{SE} is coming in late is not a newbie *lol*
<Omy> Seriously though, a shy smiles when a Dom/me looks at them. A little wave, a nod of the head..a big smile..they work fine.
<BernieRoehl> Okay, I'll pass along these tips
<BernieRoehl> So... other newbie questions?
<jen{SE}> asks the question if it has not already been asked, when does someone graduate from being a newbie? or another way of phrasing it, when did you stop feelign like a newbie?
<BernieRoehl> Excellent question, jen{SE}!
<BlackOrchid1> yeah, great question!
* BlackOrchid1 thinks on that one
<DebUTaunt> <smiling> when the rose coloured blindfold come off
* spiced` thinks sometime after the cane stripes left <g>
<`abi> I think that it's a very good thing if one has moments of 'newbiness' indefinitely
<BlackOrchid1> I think I felt I stopped being a newbie when people started asking me advice of where to go and what to do to get started in BDSM
<jen{SE}> *lol@ spiced, those who know me , know the cane stripes never leave
<Omy> I don't think there is a defining momemt jen...I think that over a time period which can vary from one person to the next. You start to feel more comfortable. The butterflies aren't nearly as strong
* spiced` grins
<jen{SE}> nods @ `abi, my point, i still feel like a newbie sometimes *lol*
<MistressSarcastica> the first time someone watched my scene and said, "oh, I could _never_ do that"
<FusionXL> Hel all
* mist{LW} thinks that its when you start feeling comfortable with everything that is going on around you, although i still think at times i am new at some things lol
<oasis{Omy}> still gets butterflys when introduced to new groups in the community
<FusionXL> oops, meant hello all
<jen{SE}> i still get butterflies everytime SE leads me to the cross
* Omy looks at his property or new paddles :)
* oasis{Omy} shivers
<BlackOrchid1> Actually, another defining moment is when you go to parties in different places and see all the same faces ;)
<heart_of_gold4> sir sillver(me) wouldnt comfort in most situations be the key
<spiced`> perhaps it's when you start to feel disillusioned
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ mist, mmmm, thinks the job of a Dominant is to never let you get comfortable *lol*
<Omy> I'd add a caveat to that BlackOrchid1...or familar backsides :)
<mist{LW}> lol jen
<BlackOrchid1> Well, that depends on the Dom/mes
<BlackOrchid1> Yes, that too, Omy ;)
<mist{LW}> more the comfort of knowing that you are going to hate/enjoy whatever it is that will happen :}
<jen{SE}> as a newbie do you feel you lose something when you lose the feeling of newness?
<heart_of_gold4> sir sillver(me) i'll remember that one jen
<BlackOrchid1> I know I lost the sense of excitement over the whole thing being new... but I felt somewhat safer knowing what the possibilities were
<jen{SE}> ok, now for the hard question, how many newbies have had the fresh meat feelign *lol*
* mist{LW} thinks all of them lol
<heart_of_gold4> lol i doooooo
<dalian> lol
<spiced`> lol, don't have to be new to get that feeling jen!
* Omy sniffs the air and inhales ode de newbie
<BlackOrchid1> beats eau de toilette LOL
<jen{SE}> ahh, such a good feeling that is *lol*
<oasis{Omy}> after a period of time there does become an element of predictability.. but people happily so are never quite as predictable.. so everything seems to have a newish feel
<jen{SE}> NOT
<Omy> I dunno BlackOrchid1...we all have our fetishes ;)
<BlackOrchid1> well, yah... LOL
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ Omy
<jen{SE}> on the serious side, i worry sometimes that new ppl can get the wrong idea about the lifestyle, or are not exposed to all sides of it
<BernieRoehl> That "fresh meat" question is interesting -- I know that when a new submissive appears on the scene, they are sometimes a bit overwhelmed by their sudden popularity
<saucyboy> those who are hardwired lifestyle folk jen{SE} ... will stick around long enough to see all sides.. :o)
<fiestyone> is that always the case?
<Omy> newbies tend to scream well BernieRoehl :)
<BlackOrchid1> I've noticed that with women people seem to respond to them as "fresh meat" but with men they seem to have to prove their worthiness. Of course, this all relates to submissives, not all new people in general
<heart_of_gold4> yes i get uncomfortable with the interest myself, makes me wonder how id handle a play party lmao
<DebUTaunt> females on both sides of D/s coin can be treated that way... but men too.
<jen{SE}> yes BernieRoehl that is what i worry about, they get exposed to the lets play, lets play, but not to the many other joys the lifestyle has to offer
<jen{SE}> this lifestyle is intense, the rewards can be great but the burnout can be a threat/worry as well
<Omy> Your mean like filthy sex that would make their mom cringe jen?
<BlackOrchid1> That's for sure. I disappeared from the lifestyle for six years after a nasty burnout
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ Omy, some of us oldies scream pretty good too :-)
<mist{LW}> i think its the play that gets them interested in learning more tho, depending of course on which Dom they first play with
<SkyDom> I have a mustache and glasses and was with a tiny gal with short blond hair who was naked most of the night....:)
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ pokes Omy, that is the worry Omy that they only see the kinky sex side
* Omy looks at jen with renewbie eyes :)
<SkyDom> Might have chatted with you at the bar
<mist{LW}> a good Dom will teach their sub/slave the other joys :}
<fiestyone> being a sub with no partner.....i do not get to experience those other aspects of the relationship
<fiestyone> so i tend to play too much probably......for it is all that i have at this point in time
<spiced`> wouldn't a sub looking for a relationship, also know the other joys they are looking for?
<Omy> Yes the joys of wood, the voilot wand, butt plugs, corbner time, serving an an ottoman, wearing vibrators in public
<mist{LW}> corbner??
<BlackOrchid1> corbner?
<Omy> err corner
* mist{LW} chuckles
<fiestyone> i know what im looking for spiced...just havent found it yet
<oasis{Omy}> have seen where new subs .. enter the scene are overwhelmed and wisked away out of control... .. things doo seem to move far more quickly in the scene
<jen{SE}> the play is the visual part, the sensation part, there is so much more, the feeling that happens inside when you know beyond a doubt what it feels like to serve.
<BernieRoehl> I notice that so far we've been talking mostly about newbie submissives. What about newbie doms?
<DebUTaunt> My newbie memories are dim, but not forgotten...
<BlackOrchid1> Well, newbie Female Dommes tend to attract prospective sub males like flies :)
<oasis{Omy}> i think its harder for the Doms to become accepted in the community..
<MistressSarcastica> What about them?
<Omy> There is joy in that to jen...kneeling as his feet while he eats.
<jen{SE}> it does not have to be your Dominant, that makes it even more special, but to serve to find the submissive inside, play does not equal submission, that is a mistake that is made wayyyyyyyy toooooooooo often
<spiced`> agreed jen
<Omy> Agreed jen
<fiestyone> agreed......
<BlackOrchid1> agreed Jen
<DebUTaunt> will I sound cynical if I say the overuse of the word "joy" here is part of the problem?
<DebUTaunt> it's wonderfully romantic,
<DebUTaunt> but reality -- and I mean the day to day lifestyle reality --
<Omy> Well there is the other side DebUTaunt...owning a slave is alot of hard work...and sometimes its REAL hard on the arm
<DebUTaunt> isn't always "joyous"... sometimes it's hard work, and discipline, and ugly and all too human
<MistressSarcastica> As a newbie to the channel, my question is, 'where's the SM in BDSM-kw'? Sounds to me like it's all about Ds here.
* spiced` grins...ahhh, romance bdsm style...isn't that the kiss of the cane?
<mist{LW}> Master agrees with the hard Arm comment lol
<jen{SE}> yes Madame DebUTaunt :-))), that is what is missed what it is to actually live this lifestyle
<fiestyone> the word for not so much joy as "peace"....that is what it brings to me
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ spiced, for us masochists that is the icing on the cake, NOT the cake...
<DebUTaunt> agreed, and we don't have to split hairs to define it -- just acknowledge that one matures in the scene as in any other area of life
<BernieRoehl> I think the reason people tend to focus on D/s in the discussions here (rather than SM) is that this medium, text chat, is well-suited for discussion relationships and not as well suited to discussing physical things.
<DebUTaunt> expectations succeed, fail, re-materialize, grow, and adapt until one day you know more of who and what you are
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ the peace comment,, hmmm, i live with SE,, do i get peace Madame DebUTaunt *lol*
* DebUTaunt won't touch that with SE's 10' single tail!
<Omy> You get a piece of his paddle ona regular basis I'd say jen ;)
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* BlackOrchid1 agrees with BernieRoehl
<fiestyone> i was talking about the peace it brings my soul......not my body
<Omy> Ohhh That paddle mind tonight I guess :)
<arhiannah> tonight Omy?
<jen{SE}> but BernieRoehl & BlackOrchid1 do You not think maybe that is part of the problem, the "text" based is easy to live, the reality based not so easy, and would it not serve the newbie population to learn about reality vs online
<arhiannah> ;)
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ fiestyone i know, i was just being silly, sorry
* Omy gives arhiannah the 'look' and makes mental note
<BlackOrchid1> that's a whole other question, isn't it? I mean, that's asking about introducing people to BDSM through online vs. in-person methods
* jen{SE} catching up with the posts.. *smiles* @ Omy, nope, no paddle,, canes, single tail, latex, but NO paddles *lol*
<Omy> I think the introduction is easier on-line then in person
<BernieRoehl> Yes, jen, but talking about SM is sort of like talking about downhill skiing -- there's only so much you can say about it, ultimately it's an activity that you have to engage in rather than talk about
* jen{SE} wood bad, very very bad, hires a bunch of beavers to visit the toy bags
* BlackOrchid1 wholeheartedly agrees with BernieRoehl
* Omy looks at jen and makes note in his redbook to speak with SE on the joys of wood
<MistressSarcastica> My "newbie" question (since not too many of us appear to be newbies) was more along the lines of: are we not just paying lip service to s/m and b/d..
<arhiannah> it's easy to be "someone" online...whereas in person...i personally, contrary to popular belief, *can* be reserved & shy
<jen{SE}> so is the lifestyle BernieRoehl, W/we can talk about it, but eventually W/we have to live it, and having the tools available to help would be a bonus
* Omy looks at arhiannah and fa;;s off his chair laughing
*becky* Sorry, I am away right now () but your message has been saved
* Omy smiles at the doorway
* oasis[Omy] looks at her Master on the floor beside her.. hmmmm
<arhiannah> no really...i'm quite intimidated by those that have been around for a nature is to crack jokes & make people take the focus off of *me*
* becky is no longer away
* Omy gets up
<DebUTaunt> MistressSarcastica -- our Sunday discussions cover all kinds of topics, including b/d, s/m. TOnite happens to focus on relationships.<s>
<jen{SE}> thinks about all i have learned in two years and wishes someone would have explained more in the beginning
<arhiannah> if you're laughing at/with me...then the focus isn't on a "deeper" me
<DebUTaunt> every other nite we chat all over the terrain
* BernieRoehl notices that there's about five minutes left in the discussion
<MistressSarcastica> mm-hmm. No offense, but I've read the logs. I think that a newbie coming in here would quickly feel that D/s was the One True Way.
<BlackOrchid1> wow! where did the time go?
<jen{SE}> when i first entered all i saw and heard was play, took some good friends to show me how much more there was
<BernieRoehl> So, anyone have any last-minute newbie questions?
<DebUTaunt> actually, if you don't mind sticking around MistressSarcastica -- (I'd be happy to pursue that conversation)
<ElbowFetish> Do newbies start with SM and move do DS?
<saucyboy> i find that most of the online people here seem to be into the gor lifestyle... which seems to focus more on D/s
<DebUTaunt> not necessarily, but some do
<spiced`> depends on what they are looking for and what they find
<BlackOrchid1> I think everybody comes at it differently. After all, we're all different
<BernieRoehl> (a side observation on that topic... -- a lot of people have observed that fet nights seem to be all about SM rather than D/s, which is largely true -- again, the context determines what works and what doesn't, and deep discussions about relationships are rarely found at fet nights)
<jen{SE}> ElbowFetish newbies start with slap and tickle, few progress to SM *lol*
<jen{SE}> SM is not allowed at public events *grins*
<DebUTaunt> I tend to talk a lot about the d/s dynamic and structure -- especially to newbies -- to make sure they're not coming with vanilla expectations of whips, chains and sex orgies
* jen{SE} showing the bratty side ooooppps
* spiced` agrees with jen
<spiced`> lol
<BernieRoehl> Not that there's anything *wrong* with whips, chains and sex orgies :-)
<DebUTaunt> sshhhhhh Bernie!
<heart_of_gold4> lol
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* BernieRoehl smiles
<jen{SE}> ahhh, BernieRoehl :-)))
<saucyboy> here here
* BlackOrchid1 agrees again with BernieRoehl
* BlackOrchid1 and grins
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's closing in on 10 pm, so let's wrap up the formal part of our discussion
<Omy> Ahhh BernieRoehl, spoken like the true manhwhore :)
<BlackOrchid1> lol Omy
* BernieRoehl smiles
<heart_of_gold4> lol
<arhiannah> lol
<jen{SE}> That's what we love about Him (Bernie) *grins*
<BernieRoehl> I'm closing the log file, and should have it processed and uploaded soon
* BernieRoehl grins back at jen
* Omy high fives BernieRoehl
<oasis[Omy]> seems we have an epidemic of manwhores lol
<BernieRoehl> Thanks for your participation, everyone!
* BernieRoehl high fives Omay
* BlackOrchid1 bows in thanks to BernieRoehl for moderating
* BernieRoehl would high-five DA (the Original Manwhore), but he's not in channel at the moment
<jen{SE}> Thank You BernieRoehl
<BernieRoehl> My pleasure!
<BernieRoehl> Have a great night, everyone, and see you next time!
<heart_of_gold4> your welcome BernieRoehl
<heart_of_gold4> bye
<saucyboy> seeya Bernie..
<BlackOrchid1> bi bye BernieRoehl!
<Justice^> night Bernie
<mist{LW}> night Bernie
<arhiannah> g'night Bernie *huggers*
<oasis[Omy]> nighters Bernie :)
* BlackOrchid1 Hugs Bernie goodnight
<Omy> night Bernie
<jen{SE}> nice to see You Madame DebUTaunt :-)
<DebUTaunt> hugs jen