March 2, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "The Mental and the Physical". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<BernieRoehl> So... the mental and the physical... different aspects of BDSM. Any opening thoughts?
<`abi> those would be mental
* Kilted_One is mental
* `vixie is certifiable!
* BernieRoehl smiles
<`abi> we just had to get it out of our systems BernieRoehl...we'll behave now ;)
<earl{MS}> can not have one without the other without loosing something
<BernieRoehl> The original intent of the topic was that the physical aspects of BDSM refer to topping and bottoming, i.e. play, whereas the mental is more about power and control
<BernieRoehl> Good point, earl{MS}
<earl{MS}> like to be well rounded
<Symmetre[t]> are we talking topping and bottoming in a short-term sense here?
<drauma{MzTyger}> as when Lady Merry trusted me to massage her back, lying down on a table to give me good access...
<earl{MS}> Symmetre[t], is that what You would like to define it as?
<BernieRoehl> I think it can be short-term or long-term. For example, some couples only engage in physical play, with no transfer of control. Others exchange power, with very little if any physical play.
<Symmetre[t]> I'm not setting out to offer any definitions yet early ..... just curious ... are we speaking in a short-term sense such as play at a fet night ... or in a longer term, as in an ongoing relationship
<Symmetre[t]> er, earl .... sorry .... typo
<earl{MS}> being 500 miles apart, W/we do not get the physical often but the mental is always there
<drauma{MzTyger}> physical, as, the Domme who has been gently talking to you from outside your comfort zone, decides she wants to play with you after all, and suddenly invades that zone...
<rose{MD}> i am apart from my Master earl and He is very good with the mental aspect with me *eg*
<BernieRoehl> So has anyone here had a relationship (other than long-distance ones, where physical play is sporadic at best) that was primarily physical or primarily mental?
* jewel`{F} raises her hand
<Symmetre[t]> I think all of my relationships have been a mixture .... most have probably been more mental than purely physical tho
<jewel`{F}> Master's family and work commitments just don't always allow for play time
<drauma{MzTyger}> cant imagine being interested in a purely physical relationship
<drauma{MzTyger}> not long-term
<rose{MD}> The mental aspect adds more excitement or at least adds a great deal to it
<Kilted_One> do you really think it is possible to be all of one or the other without some of the "other" being mixed in
<drauma{MzTyger}> even mainly physical play sessions have some mental componant for me
<drauma{MzTyger}> a violet wand session (wiht knife play too) had considerable mental action as well last friday, the sensation predominated, but having to describe them, and, being unrestrained, both presented a mental challenge
<BernieRoehl> Can you expand on that, drauma{MzTyger}?
<drauma{MzTyger}> I submit when I play, that is mental
<drauma{MzTyger}> hit me wiht a paddle, I hurt
<kierana{DRFL}> isn't there the mental componant of preparing oneself for a physical play session...putting oneself in the right head space?
<drauma{MzTyger}> yes, exactly
<drauma{MzTyger}> and, staying there
<kierana{DRFL}> i find when Master and i play...i am ready for it mentally only when the hood is placed on my head and the laces done up...then my mental space is right for whatever happens next
<earl{MS}> there is a deeper mental complonent to some relationships that goes beyond just submitting for play
<BernieRoehl> So do people find that particular types of physical play that trigger those feelings of submission?
<drauma{MzTyger}> sometimes, the click of the quick-connect; the descent of the blindfold are triggers for me
<drauma{MzTyger}> but, in part, I make them that
<kierana{DRFL}> sometimes,'s a look that triggers submission...or a softly spoken word
* _dove agrees with kierana{DRFL}
* kierana{DRFL} smiles thankful i'm not an oddball
<BernieRoehl> And in those cases, when it's a word or a look, does the physical play generally follow? Or is it just a case of finding that moment of power exchange?
<drauma{MzTyger}> Always is a big concept, but one woudl hope the DOminant wouldnt give the trigger wihtout following thru
<_dove> Not necessarily, BernieRoehl
<kierana{DRFL}> for me, it is just a case of at that moment being reminded just what my place is and the value Master puts in it...doesn't have to be a play session...could be just getting His coffee
<ambah> sometimes physical follows and sometimes there is more of a mental play
<earl{MS}> BernieRoehl, do not understand, "moment of power exchange", the power exchange with Mistress is always, not just a momentary thing
<BernieRoehl> Certainly, earl. But as with all things, I suspect that there are varying degrees.
<drauma{MzTyger}> not for all of us earl
<`abi> I believe you are talking about a feeling of 'dropping' Bernie ... perhaps that would clarify the difference for earl
<drauma{MzTyger}> for some, the power exchange is hers to expect and command, but not always in effect
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, abi -- yes
<earl{MS}> respect all differences with different couples, but with U/us, the mental goes much deeper than what W/we do when together or apart, it is Her control over Her slave's very thoughts
<kierana{DRFL}> what about a Dom's mental state...does the Dom/me need to be in a certain "space" before a physical session?
<earl{MS}> this slave's wants, desires, likes and dislikes are often under his Mistress's control
<BernieRoehl> Yes, speak for myself kierana{DRFL}, that's definitely true
<BernieRoehl> If not, then it feels like I'm just sort of "going through the motions"
<drauma{MzTyger}> with so much to be controled, i would hope the Dominant partner was mentally prepared, I know as a musician I have to be before I can play my best
<BernieRoehl> Same with me and theatre, drauma{MzTyger}
<Kilted_One> agrees with Bernie, one has to get the head space right and go through all of the safety, all of the equipment required, all of the possibilities, that sort of thing...a mental prep for sure
* kierana{DRFL} smiles at Bernie Sir...and that is what Master says as well...the need to be in the right "spot" for play
<BernieRoehl> Do most Doms (and Dommes) find that there are things that put them in the right head space?
<drauma{MzTyger}> I feel the same way as a submissive, both mentally and physically I need to be right for play
<`vixie> i agree drauma, there are days that i am craving it, and other days when i want to push it away from me
<Kilted_One> inspiration puts me there....where ever it comes from and however it happens
<BernieRoehl> It would be nice to bottle that inspiration
* kierana{DRFL} chuckles hmmmmm would be a million dollar seller for sure
<drauma{MzTyger}> some call it choclate
* BernieRoehl laughs
<kierana{DRFL}> lol...or the scent of leather
<BernieRoehl> Chocolate's good. What other "triggers" do peopl have?
<Kilted_One> thinks that "despiration"
<drauma{MzTyger}> Quiet times together, away from distractions
<earl{MS}> Mistress's desire is this slave's trigger
<drauma{MzTyger}> yes earl, but, what triggers her desire?
<kierana{DRFL}> my triggers are simple...the sight of my hood, or the discussion Master and i have beforehand helps to prepare me,
<earl{MS}> drauma{MzTyger}, would need to ask Her
<earl{MS}> drauma{MzTyger}, so far Her trigger seems to be a naked slave kneeling at Her side
<rose{MD}> Master having control over me triggers His . One of many *s*
<BernieRoehl> Is there an element of... (for want of a better word...) "conditioned response" to things? The hood for kierana, for example?
<`vixie> there can be, depending on if there are rituals attached
<BernieRoehl> I'm with her on that -- a naked kneeling slave does it for me too
<krista-F> definitely.....
<earl{MS}> especially after a dip in the hot tub
<drauma{MzTyger}> ..."Say Yes Mistress" is becomming a conditioned response...:-)
<kierana{DRFL}> i don't know that it's the hood itself that makes the conditioned response...when i hold it it doesn't do as much for me...but seeing it in Master Richard's hands has me squirmy inside while i'm kneeling
<earl{MS}> kierana{DRFL}, lucky you
<BernieRoehl> So it's not so much the physical object, as it is the association with play?
<drauma{MzTyger}> or with play context
<kierana{DRFL}> yes...that would be it, Bernie Sir...and the only time the hood comes out is for serious play's like a huge neon sign for
<earl{MS}> talk about the mental, thinks "pretti-n-kink" is a wonderful nick, full of mental pictures
* pretti-n-kink blushes
<BernieRoehl> A lot of submissives mention things like that... the click of a collar closing around their neck, a tone of voice, a key phrase, something that they recognize and that brings out an almost Pavlovian response
<drauma{MzTyger}> as to mental vs physical, consider this, its a trip for most men to be in the intimates section of a womens department in a store
<v_a> i agree with that Bernie,
<v_a> the smell of the leather, the feel of it - will make the senses kick in
* kierana{DRFL} chuckles woof, woof
* DarkAngel^{rt} moves off to the side to listen quietly
<drauma{MzTyger}> dress a man in pink, and his mind often will reel
<kierana{DRFL}> would agree with you there drauma
<krista-F> when this one plays with her public partner..he always wears leather gloves.and will put them over this girls nose and the smell of leather has an effect on her
<earl{MS}> dreaming of a pink nightie
<drauma{MzTyger}> tell me to buy some womens intimate clothing for myself and its hard, for another woman its easy
* Kilted_One thinks of a certain Dom's pink underware with his chaps
<`vixie> that would be a sight to see!
<earl{MS}> got pictures?
<mist{LW}> mmm, i need to find some leather gloves for Master, that would indeed kick in my senses
<Kilted_One> he wears them proudly
<drauma{MzTyger}> a black tee-shirt, wiht pink lettering is even hard for some
<drauma{MzTyger}> so, sometimes a primarily mental issue is raised by a small physical thing
<earl{MS}> *looks down at his crotch*
<drauma{MzTyger}> how many men would wear nail polish for a week, to work etc
<`abi> heck, *I* wouldn't wear nail polish to work for a week
<kierana{DRFL}> lol neither would i...wouldn't last a week
<drauma{MzTyger}> I tried it to see if I could get em to last that long
<drauma{MzTyger}> but in the process I found myself seeing those red nayles all day long...
<drauma{MzTyger}> at first they seemed not a part of me
<earl{MS}> drauma{MzTyger}, you are a trip, an enjoyable one
<drauma{MzTyger}> ty
<earl{MS}> yw
<BernieRoehl> So getting back on-topic for a moment....
<BernieRoehl> We've talked about "triggers" for Dominance and submission, in particular as a prelude to physical play.
* DarkAngel^{rt} isnt as "sure" about triggers ,,, since I am always .... Mmmm ... how to say ,,,, "on"
<BernieRoehl> What about the other direction... the feelings that physical play produces? In this case, I'm not just talking about dropping, but more generally.
* kierana{DRFL} chuckles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> perhaps it would be better to say ,,, I am never "off" .. I am just me
<kierana{DRFL}> like the closeness afterwards, Bernie Sir? is that what You mean?
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<BernieRoehl> That's certainly part of it, but beyond that a sort of "change of emotional state". This applies to both D's and s's, of course.
<earl{MS}> the pain, the pleasure, the elation?
<drauma{MzTyger}> well, last Friday brought me a very welcome second session wiht my first Domme, and the promise of more to come; when I had not thought that possible.
<drauma{MzTyger}> and, as i explore more kinds of play, I find myself more willing to explore
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl drauma{MzTyger}
<earl{MS}> think the best part is the high one gets after a good trip to sub-space, which can last for days
<earl{MS}> drauma{MzTyger}, yes the more one does the more one wants to do
<kierana{DRFL}> the wanting it never to end...and the pleasure of just reaffirming i am owned...*chuckles*
<drauma{MzTyger}> not always, so far my experiences have been generally good ones, but, I can see other outcomes are possible...
* BernieRoehl awaitsn drauma's next line of text
<drauma{MzTyger}> :-)
* BernieRoehl clicks on mIRC, and sees it
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I recently (at an event that will remain nameless ,,, with a newbie that will remain nameless) ,, played casually with someone publicly for the first time ,,, was fun ,, but I found the holding myself in check to be distracting ,, but I did find an enjoyable focus in the play
<krista-F> it is something that can be very hard for those of us who have no Master to submit to
<krista-F> that "high" can become elusive
<drauma{MzTyger}> is a Dominant necessary for submission?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> in finding that focus ,, I enjoyed the play
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<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.