February 18 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's just now turning 9 pm -- time for our weekly discussion
<canplay> hello Al,, nice to see You again
* que`sarah hugs NorthLad
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic welcome message on the channel that reads as follows
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "How to Combat Dom Droop". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<NorthLad> ::sighs:: mmm hugs
<playful_minx> hiya NL...*hugs*
* DarkAngel^{nym} goes to grab a cold beer to settle in for the discusion
<Kilted_One> greetings celtic`mist
<janiz> 'eveing KiltedOne
<celtic`mist> greetings KO and all :}
<BernieRoehl> This is the last topic that was left from the original list, way back when.
<BernieRoehl> A bit of research has revealed that it was sent to us by abi, who provides the following description...
<BernieRoehl> some Doms were bemoaning the fact that they were always expected to be "on"
<BernieRoehl> In other words, sometimes a Dom is just not in Domspace, even when presented with an eager submissive
<janiz> listens to explaination
<BernieRoehl> I've also heard some Doms complain of a kind of "overload" -- of having to be in Dom mode so much that they find themselves needing some downtime
<BernieRoehl> I think the topic is broad enough to cover both of those descriptions
<BernieRoehl> So... any opening thoughts?
<NorthLad> well I never feel like I have to be on..if anything I am too silly :)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> Anyone else?
<celtic`mist> i have had Doms who have complained of that sort of thing
<Grizzly_AL> we are only ppl and cant be on 24/7 we need time for other things too
<celtic`mist> perhaps its because i am always in submissive mode :}
<dale^^> once had someone ask me what i would do with a Dom who didn't have a sex drive :-)))
<celtic`mist> well almost always lol
<deviantangel> personally i try to be as accepting as possible with my Dom so when i am feeling low (like this weekend and the flu i caught) he allows me some space
<`abi> well, there's always manual overdrive dale ;)
<dale^^> *lol*, my flip answer was not to have Him... :-)
<canplay> i dont' think the pressure comes from the submissive,, but from within the Dom Himself to always be on
<dale^^> but on the serious side, it is a common problem for males as they got older, but still a taboo subject
<BernieRoehl> True, dale, but in this case it's not just a lack of sexual drive but also a lack of desire/motivation to play
* dale^^ ooopss, shows where my minds at :-)))
* BernieRoehl smiles
<canplay> i don't know what Doms do to rejuvinate, i know subs turn to other subs for advice, but i don't know that Doms do the same
<celtic`mist> perhaps it becomes to routine and expected for them?
<BernieRoehl> Several years ago I was playing casually with several different submissives around the same time, and at one point I found myself a bit overloaded. After spending three long nights in the same week playing with different people, I began to feel like a kind of "flogging machine".
<Grizzly_AL> there could be other factors in the Doms life that are on his mind and hence he is not in the mind set to play
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, Al -- been there
<`abi> I think it depends on how much of it is a "role" and how much of it is "real" ... a role becomes a burdon, a mindset does not
<Grizzly_AL> one big example of that for men is work gets on there minds a lot
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> among other things...but not just for the men either!
<Grizzly_AL> i can only talk from the point of view of a man Wolf-Maiden[ND]
<BernieRoehl> True, Wolf-Maiden[ND] -- there can certainly be Domme-droop as well
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> yes I realize that
* canplay nods to abi
<canplay> and sub-droop?
<DarkAngel^{nym}> well, personally not yet being in a 24/7 situation, I havent felt the Droop yet.
<DarkAngel^{nym}> but I do think that quiet time is deserved and needed by everyone at times
* canplay agrees with Dark Angel
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> it's called sanity rejuvination time!
<DarkAngel^{nym}> true Wolf-Maiden[ND] ,,
* DebUTaunt joined late, but may I ask a question?
* canplay makes note of new term
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> everyone needs a "Me" day once inawhile
<BernieRoehl> Of course, DebUTaunt
<DarkAngel^{nym}> but BDSM cant happen 24/7 either ,,, and a relationship can provide the rest as well
* DarkAngel^{nym} will have a subbie soaker this summer *evil chuckle*
<DarkAngel^{nym}> uhh err ,, I mean a Hot Tub
* deviantangel makes a note to get an invite to DA's ;o)
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> lol
<canplay> so Bernie when You felt the overload,, what did You do?
<BernieRoehl> Right, and when both people need downtime at the same time, that's great. I think the question is what happens when the sub needs to play, and the Dom or Domme just isn't in the right headspace
<DarkAngel^{nym}> well one should make note that our community has been providing good fun of late ,, Karioki (YUCK) ect
<BernieRoehl> I took a break -- told everyone I was playing with that I needed to take a week off
* Johncin thinks both Dom and sub need a break from the lifestyle sometimes
<DarkAngel^{nym}> communication
<BernieRoehl> (Of course, everyone assumed I was just spending all my time with one of the others -- which I wasn't!)
<canplay> if my Master was not in mood to play,, i don't play,, there is always another time
<DarkAngel^{nym}> that isnt what I said ,,, uhh err heard BernieRoehl
* BernieRoehl smiles at DA
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> the way i look at it is like this...it is like everything else in life we do...you need a break or it becomes tedious and boring....just like with our jobs...everyone needs a holiday so to speak
<DarkAngel^{nym}> new things to explore also keep things fresh
<DebUTaunt> ok, let's try that again...
* BernieRoehl smiles at DebUTaunt
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> yes definately...always need extra little things to keep it interesting
<DebUTaunt> what did the topic mean by "dom droop" please?
* Johncin agrees with Wolf-Maiden
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> we all need a little gravy with our mashed potatoes...
<BernieRoehl> A couple of things, DebUTaunt -- one is the expectation that Doms will always be "on", and the other is that Doms (and Dommes) sometimes get burned out
<DebUTaunt> thanks, just wanted toknow I was on the same page
<DebUTaunt> are we arguing that it's true, or is it defacto?
<DebUTaunt> again, apologiesfor arriving late
<canplay> i don't know how They combat this, but i do hope They take time to re-assure the submissive that it is not her, i know i would feel bad if my Master was low
<DarkAngel^{nym}> that would be the time he/she needed your support candie```
<DarkAngel^{nym}> oops ,, canplay
<canplay> i don't think anyone is saying it is not true DebUTaunt,, just how to combat it, if/when it happens
* DarkAngel^{nym} grumbles at his dumb TAB
<DebUTaunt> I think we have to accept that it happens to everyone... in either role...
<BernieRoehl> So... is it best for a Dom (or Domme) to play in that situation, and hope they get into the right headspace, or is it better to wait unti they're in the right frame of mind?
* canplay agrees in either role
<DebUTaunt> and either compassion or "suspension of disbelief" takes over to get us past it
* canplay votes for right frame of mind
* DebUTaunt seconds that
<DebUTaunt> these 'lapses" are also opportunities to connect on other levels
* Wolf-Maiden[ND] raises her hand to that as well
<DebUTaunt> to show compassional and understanding and love and support etc. etc.
* DarkAngel^{nym} has euforic highs when playing/"on" ... but definetly needs quiet time ,,,, must be something more of a concern for 24/7 relationships ,, my nym is a bit away from me
<DebUTaunt> then she doesn't have to see it, right DA?
<celtic`mist> when i was 24/7 the only reason we didnt play was broken ribs on His part :{
<DebUTaunt> wow...I'm jealous
<celtic`mist> the submission and Domination was given all the time
<DarkAngel^{nym}> we talk daily though DebUTaunt ,,,, but I dont get the opportunity to be "on" enough ,,, so not sure I have had to "re-charge " yet
* DarkAngel^{nym} still feels the hunger to be "on" more
<DebUTaunt> I'd agree DA... it's a different kettle of fish 24/7.... which i've long since given up on
<DarkAngel^{nym}> one day DebUTaunt ,,,, one day
<DebUTaunt> I don't get the chance to be "on" as much as I'd like, but it's for a different reason
<celtic`mist> there are less stressfull ways of Domming than flogging, words, "the look" :}
<DebUTaunt> however... is the discussion about those "down" "dark" "disconnected" times?
<DebUTaunt> when one is in "the cave"?
<DarkAngel^{nym}> ways of combatting this Droop DebUTaunt
<BernieRoehl> It can be, DebUTaunt
<DebUTaunt> but why is the droop so bad?
<DebUTaunt> are we not allowed a re-energizing time?
<DebUTaunt> is this notalso a reflection of the sub's ability to assist regaining balance?
<DebUTaunt> sometimes a sub can suck one dry...
<BernieRoehl> I think we are, Deb -- but that does leave the submissive needing more than their Domme can offer at the moment
<DebUTaunt> or is that not politically correct to say
<DarkAngel^{nym}> I think the "droop" in question would be a excessive swing of the pendulum
<canplay> hey why put this on the subs? i think Doms can do overload on their own,, not asked for by subs
* DarkAngel^{nym} grins with evil intent at DebUTaunt's words ,,, but I think we arent thinking the same thing
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> I'd have to agree with that point as well
<DebUTaunt> [point taken canplay... but there's two sides to the coin
<canplay> yes DebUTaunt and i am here for my side *grins*
<DebUTaunt> I'm in no way disparaging submissives at all...
<canplay> i do not put expectations on my Master ,, He puts them there
<DebUTaunt> but often Dominants set themselves unrealistic goals...
<canplay> and as Bernie spoke of earlier,, He put too much on His plate at one time and got overload
* canplay smiles
<DebUTaunt> it is an easy trap for a Dominant to fall into... that his/her sub is 'helpless'
<DebUTaunt> and we take on too much
<DebUTaunt> afterall, a submissive is an adult
<DebUTaunt> who sometimes plays the helpless child
<DebUTaunt> adn we get seduced into playing to an overabundance of needs
<DarkAngel^{nym}> true DebUTaunt ,,,, I have recently done just that ,,, and pulled back
<DarkAngel^{nym}> it was burning me out ,,,, at leaste on the topic of her ex
<DebUTaunt> I agree, without knowing the details...
<BernieRoehl> And there are other factors as well. When there are other things going on in life (a sick child, for example) it can be really hard to enter Domspace in order to play.
<DebUTaunt> the point is, sometimes -- and I stress sometimes, not always --
<DebUTaunt> a sub can take and take and take emotionally, while giving physically perhaps...
* Kilted_One thinks it is a little like most things in life.....there has to be some respect paid to frequency as too much is not good as well as not enough....balance being what should be saught
<DebUTaunt> but it's not balanced
<DebUTaunt> and those of Us who try to be all things to all people
<DebUTaunt> get burned in the process
<DarkAngel^{nym}> once burned ,, twice shy
<DebUTaunt> thank you KO... that's exactly what I mean
* DebUTaunt nods in complete understanding
<canplay> and is this the subs fault for their attempts, or the Doms for allowing it?
<DarkAngel^{nym}> it still comes round to communication ,,, and understanding on both parts
<DebUTaunt> that's not fair canplay...
* canplay ponders that
<celtic`mist> a sub is expected to play when a Dom wishes
<DebUTaunt> a decent dominant will try to be everything you need or want or desire or be stopped by his/her own limitations
<Sharifah> comunication and negotiation...but mostly knowing and acknowledging your individual needs
<canplay> i think what Dark Angel was getting to is just this,,He took til He had to say enough
<Sharifah> and working with a partner to get those mutual needs met
<DebUTaunt> yes, but it feels sometimes a failure to say "enough" too
<canplay> that i can understand DebUTaunt
<DebUTaunt> I'd like to think I'm invincible...
<DarkAngel^{nym}> depends on the people,, the topic ,,, but to say "enough" ,, is a good thing for a relationship
<DebUTaunt> I agree John... and I've been there a number of times...
<DebUTaunt> but it's still hard
<vixen{Sar}> but W/we all must remember....most of U/us are mere mortals....not many onmipotents amoung the community, at least in my books
<Sharifah> setting a boundary and keeping a boundary is always a good thing
<DarkAngel^{nym}> definetly vixen{Sar} ,,,, well ok,, for you mortals that is ,,,*Mutant chuckle*
<DebUTaunt> we don't know Sharifah, what our boundaries are until they're tested tho
* canplay laughs at the Mutant
<deviantangel> declaring and planning a pamper my partner day once a week or couple of weeks would be a good stress buster i think
<deviantangel> for both the Dom and sub
<DarkAngel^{nym}> not sure if this topic is a bondary ,,, just about how/when to relax from the BDSM portions ,,, when one needs to relax
<DebUTaunt> I'm a firm believer in reality over fantasy.... but a stress reliever is a blessing
<canplay> yes each must know when they need a break,,find a way to express it,, and take one
<DebUTaunt> anyone who can enter my (real) world and offer me relief has my devotion and respect
<canplay> i just know i would feel personally responsible if my Master got burnout,,and i would feel awful
<`firestar> With my Master just being here for two weeks, what he had me do was one day spend only on pampering Him
<DebUTaunt> but how would you deal with that if it happened?
<DarkAngel^{nym}> you would be responsible to help him/her out of it canplay ,,,but not sure you need be feeling guilty ,,, we all get worn at times
<Sharifah> and it's an individuals responsibility to indicate that their worn
<DarkAngel^{nym}> true Sharifah
<canplay> i would hope communication made it clear that it was not me, and He just needed a break, i would be more then happy to just let Him be to refresh
<canplay> wether i should feel guilt or not does not matter, i would feel i have failed somehow or have not cared enough
<DarkAngel^{nym}> well one thing ,,, if I were burnt out ,, I could always tie nym to a chair and gag her ,, then take a hot soak *demonic smile*
* BernieRoehl smiles at DA's suggestion!
<DebUTaunt> I would find a way of gratifying a sub who recognized my need at the moment
<canplay> if that made You feel better DA, i am sure nym would love it also
<DebUTaunt> then make up to him/her when it was possible
<DarkAngel^{nym}> take a different look at things ,,, try something new ,,, pul myself out of the drop
<Sharifah> for a 24/7 I can see burnout being a problem how many not in a 24/7 find this to be an issue?
<Kilted_One> is there not all kinds of play that can be initiated??.....feeling "off" might mean that you select a type of play that is suiting to the mood or state of mind that the partnership is in??
<DarkAngel^{nym}> exactly my point Kilted_One
<canplay> that works fine Kilted One unless the droop is from having to be in control at all times, that may be what the Dom is wishing to avoid
<DarkAngel^{nym}> that is why I do like the Munches ,,,, good conversation keeps the mind stimulated
<DebUTaunt> I should get to more munches where you are DA
<canplay> me too Dark Angel
<DarkAngel^{nym}> especially the friendly ones canplay
* wysper^ agrees about munches
* canplay points DebUTaunt to the woodstock munch for DA
<Kilted_One> so the play could be to allow the submissive to have more control for that session canplay, let her have a little more freedom to see what she can do with it how she can create with it...
<DarkAngel^{nym}> Woodstock ... London ,,,, and all the rest in the summer
<canplay> ah good point KO *smiles*
<canplay> actually i bet that would work great, Kilted One,, good idea
<DarkAngel^{nym}> also Kilted_One ,,, should it be my sub who is experiancing the Droop ,,,, stroking her special buttons would be my duty
<DebUTaunt> woodstock is about the outer limites of travel area for me
* canplay thinks outer limits is good term for woodstock
* Kilted_One nods to DA...exactly fitting the play with the mood of the day....
<DarkAngel^{nym}> it is a small and interesting Munch DebUTaunt
<DarkAngel^{nym}> the extras always are apreciatted ,,,
<DarkAngel^{nym}> bathing ones sub ,,,, and shaving certain parts ,,,, ect
<DebUTaunt> perhaps I shall make the ridiculous long drive DA
<DarkAngel^{nym}> you would be very welcome DebUTaunt ,,, how long would the drive be ?
<Kilted_One> can drop by here first Deb we can have a bus load of us go there
<BernieRoehl> So, we have just a few minutes left in the discussion
<BernieRoehl> Any closing thoughts on the topic of Dom/Domme droop, and how to deal with it?
<DebUTaunt> yes, KO, carpools are a good thing
<DarkAngel^{nym}> perhaps DAL one time DebUTaunt ,,,, I will swallow my humbleness ,,, and say it is the best around
<canplay> i think we close with to combat Dom Droop,, go to woodstock munch Bernie *laughs*
* DarkAngel^{nym} thinks that those who are down ,,, need to be selfish ,,, and take care of themselves ,,, get re-charged
* BernieRoehl chuckles
* Kilted_One thinks that play should be like punishement..let it fit the mood or the crime....
* BernieRoehl agrees with DA
<DarkAngel^{nym}> lol
<canplay> well said Dark Angel
<DebUTaunt> your humility notwithstanding DA,it's about 125 km drive
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
* canplay agrees with Kilted One also
<DarkAngel^{nym}> ok DebUTaunt ,,,, like my drive to Kinky Cafe ,,, one reason I only go every few months
<BernieRoehl> Well, since it's almost 9 pm and we seem to have exhausted the topic, I'm going to close the log here.
* `vixie checks her clock ;)
<canplay> thanks Bernie : ))
<ThBear> that is a short drive tis 250 km to the london munch for me
<BernieRoehl> Thanks everyone for participating!
<DarkAngel^{nym}> almost 10 pm too
* `vixie thinks of the 300+ km's she's gonna drive just for a job interview
<DarkAngel^{nym}> ty BernieRoehl ,,,, an interesting topic ,, good comments all around
<Kilted_One> Deb ya got a sec??
<Wolf-Maiden[ND]> your welcome :)
<BernieRoehl> I should have the log processed and uploading later tonight or tomorrow
* wysper^ wished she had been here sooner - i enjoyed this discussion!
<BernieRoehl> Next week's moderator will be Tiia, with a topic yet to be announced
<Kilted_One> well done Bernie and thanks for the efforts
<BernieRoehl> My pleasure!
<^Boo> ty Bernie
<nimeesha{JFC}> *hugs* Bernie
<^Boo> was indeed an interesting topic
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to head offline to work on uploading the log. See you all later!
<`vixie> bye Bernie
<Kilted_One> be well Bernie
<nimeesha{JFC}> *waves at Bernie*
<playful_minx> *smiling and giving you a hug* night Bernie!
<candie```> nite Bernie :)
<Grizzly_AL> bye Brine
<^rhiannon^> night Bernie Sir.