February 16, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "How Accepting Are You of Other People's Kinks?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Varky> evening MistressSarcastica
<BernieRoehl> Hi, everyone!
<laralynn> hi Bernie
<tj6james6> hi Bernie, how ya doin?
<suzq{C}> evening Bernie
* laralynn waves to Michel too
<rose{MD}> Hello Mr Roehle Sir
<kehleia> eveening BernieRoehl
<laralynn> hiya botts
<BernieRoehl> I'm good. Just dropped in to se how ModBot is doing, and to join the conversation.
<tj6james6> ModBot seems to be doing very well, lol
<laralynn> we know you're good Bernie but how do you feel? LOL
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<tj6james6> lol@laralynn
<laralynn> wait I felt you earlier you felt pretty good LOL
<tj6james6> lol
* BernieRoehl pats ModBot on the head (urr... not so much "head" as "cpu" I guess...)
<tj6james6> looked pretty good this aft too, lol
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, laralynn
<BernieRoehl> So, time for the discussion.
<tj6james6> seems like
<BernieRoehl> So, the topic is how accepting we are of other people's kinks. Any opening thoughts?
<tc_terri{MM}> Celebrate Our Differences
<rose{MD}> Sir it was not long ago i was very close minded. i have grown a lot *s*
<BernieRoehl> Glad to hear it, rose.
<tj6james6> hmmmmmm, I love my kinks & hope others will be open enuf to accept me & them for what * and they are, I am me & they are a part of me
<BernieRoehl> Can you describe some of the ways in which your view have changed?
<rose{MD}> It took a lot of Masters patient explaining
* BernieRoehl smiles
<rose{MD}> There were many things i was shocked to think others did. But now i enjoy those very things'
<BernieRoehl> Ironic, isn't it?
<rose{MD}> At times Sir kinda of delicioulsy scary
<BernieRoehl> Even better. Irony *and* fear!
<rose{MD}> Yes Sir
<laralynn> I don't think anyone in this lifestyle really critisizes anyone else's kinks..they may not like what others do but they don't put them down for it
<BernieRoehl> So... are there any kinks that anyone here feels uncomfortable with?
<tj6james6> it is facing our fears which broadens our view of things
* `vixie has a few
<BernieRoehl> Good point, laralynn
<`vixie> but i don't hold it against those who enjoy it
* BernieRoehl nods
<laralynn> I'm not comfortable with blood letting or needles or knives or edge play but I don't put others down or critisize them if that's what they like
<BernieRoehl> I'm with you on that, laralynn -- definitely not my thing, and in fact it squicks me a bit, but I certainly don't mind that other people are into it
<laralynn> I think I could watch it being done but I know the one thing I couldn't watch is scat/toilet play that grosses me out big time
<BernieRoehl> We seem to be seeing eye-to-eye today, laralynn -- blood and scat are two of my big not-interested-in's
<tj6james6> as long as people treat me with the the respect I deserve, I will do the same to them, it does not matter whether they are part of the community or part of the str8 community
<laralynn> I wanna try out KO's tens unit LOL now that peaked my interest LOL
<BernieRoehl> That's a healthy approach, tj6james6
<tj6james6> I am with laralynn & Bernie, def not into those things
* `vixie hides from violet wands
<Varky> yuck - me neither
* Kilted_One has a violet wand but no tens unit
<BernieRoehl> It sounds like we're all pretty accepting people (or at least, we all think we are!)
<tj6james6> lol, very true
<BernieRoehl> What about the other side... has anyone ever felt others were judging them for their kinks?
<laralynn> oh well I knew it was one of those things KO LOL I still would like to try it LMAO
<tj6james6> I was born in the very prejudiced Southern USA, so I do fight those urges daily
<earl{MS}> BernieRoehl, have been called emasculated in this very room for being a male slave
<BernieRoehl> Was it part of your upbringing, tj6james6?
<laralynn> that's a hard one Bernie because I don't think alot of us go around announcing our lifestyle choices unless it's to people we know are into it as well
<tc_terri{MM}> Do we view bi-sexual females differently than bi-sexual males ?
<BernieRoehl> Really, earl? I won't ask by who, but outright criticism sounds very unusual (and disturbing).
<tj6james6> partly Bernie, but since 8 y/o, have lived here, where prejudeces were not as open
<BernieRoehl> I'm thinking more about the judgements of others in the lifestyle, laralynn, rather than from 'nilla folk -- though the 'nilla aspect is interesting too, for those of us who are "out" about our involvement in the scene.
<BernieRoehl> I think some people do, tc_terri{MM}
<tj6james6> but, if I came out to my parents, there would be the prejudices
<laralynn> I don't think I've actually heard anyone critisize anyone else's choices
<rose{MD}> i have found Sir the only ones that criticize are the ones just entering the lifestyle
* bottoms_up37{F} has to admit that i am an information and debating person.. so when i dont understand or agree on something... i pester people. Hopefully they arent feeling negatively judged.. but just annoyed that i want explanations *Grin*
<laralynn> maybe voiced that they didn't like it or wouldn't do that but not outright critisize it
<rose{MD}> Them i just say " Wait and see"
<BernieRoehl> Why do you think that is, rose? (Why newbies are the ones who are most inclined to criticize)
<rose{MD}> They don't understand and/or have not yet experienced many of the things they are against Sir
<tj6james6> because they have not experience the lifestyle yet, so they do not know what they will & will not do
<rose{MD}> i to did this at one time
<bottoms_up37{F}> thats true.. i said ewww gross and put it as a limit.. for watersports.. when i was new
<earl{MS}> have a question, if i may?
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, earl
<laralynn> I actually was told one time that I should have the Dom who gave me bruises arrested and thrown in jail for abuse...I just looked at the girl and told her that they were intentional and I wasn't about to have him or anyone arrested
<bottoms_up37{F}> laralynn.. was it a bdsm person or a vanilla person that said that?
<earl{MS}> would you call this one bi or gay if he engaged in sex with another male only under orders from his mistress?
<laralynn> nilla one botts
<laralynn> bi
<laralynn> and can I watch next time? LOL
<tc_terri{MM}> lol
<Sweet1`> i'd call him obedient
* cdove agrees with Sweet1`
<tj6james6> as would I Sweet1
<BernieRoehl> That's a tough question, earl{MS} -- but I'm inclined to agree with Sweet1
<Sir_StephenS> thats very odedient
<`abi> I don't necessarily think it makes him bi .. it means he has had bisexual experience
<BernieRoehl> If you initiated it on your own, then perhaps you'd be bi or gay. If it's only done under orders, then the choice isn't yours.
<tj6james6> earl, did you enjoy it, would you do it again if you were not told to?
<tc_terri{MM}> Doing it under orders, tends to take the "stigma" away from the sub. makes it more acceptable to the sub himself , I would think
<`abi> if he enjoyed it beyond the carrying out of an order, then I think it puts him somewhere other than at a polar end of the sexuality spectrum
<rose{MD}> i can agree there tc
<tc_terri{MM}> It has always interested me, how Women in our lifestyle are more able to admit to being bi than the men
<tc_terri{MM}> bu there again the media plays a role in that I would think
<tj6james6> tc, I think that is because W/we have all been conditioned to believe that is ok because of media
<Sweet1`> it's may be cuz men almost expect us to be, it's a fantasy of many
<BernieRoehl> That's certainly true, tc, though I'm not sure it's necessarily attributable to the media
<bottoms_up37{F}> i agree Sweet1`
<Sir_StephenS> lots of theories on that one, tc_terri{MM}...many of them play off the idea of women being more sensual/sexual
<laralynn> I think two men together is sensual and sexual and I'd much rather watch two men than two women
<tj6james6> agreel laralynn
<tj6james6> *agreed
<earl{MS}> males can be sexy and romantic, given the right conditions
* cdove slips out quietly
<mark> rrrtp
<BernieRoehl> So, getting back on topic for a moment, do people feel that they're judged or looked at differently because they've engaged in gay/bi activities?
<tj6james6> hmmmmmmm, I don't look at them any different
<BernieRoehl> Anyone else?
<laralynn> within the lifestyle?
<Guest70706> I don't judge anyones fun
<Varky> perhaps not judged but looked at differently
<rose{MD}> To me Sir it is another way of growing and experiencing different things within the lifestyel
<Guest70706> never judge others
<BernieRoehl> Good advice from our quickly-departed guest
<earl{MS}> this seems to be a very accepting group
<tj6james6> sure was, lol
<tj6james6> seems to be, but I don't think we have hit upon whatever it is that the group as a whole or singally does not like, whatever that may be
<tc_terri{MM}> I think that for the most part, our community is very accepting, I know, I would never of come to terms with who I am without this communities acceptance of me
<laralynn> I don't think many in the lifestyle judge gay/bi activities any differently however outside the lifestyle we are judged for what we choose to do and gay/bi activities for the most part are accepted pretty much anywhere now
<BernieRoehl> Good point, tj6james6. I wonder if there are things that people simply haven't seen or thought of, that would bring out their judgemental side?
<twilight_girl> I think that it would not be fair of us to ask for acceptance without offering it to others
<rick666> can't do anything unusual and still be judgemental
* BernieRoehl tends to agree with twilight_girl
<tj6james6> true twiilight, but we have to accept ourselves individually b4 we can accept others for the same things we do not like in O/ourselves
<Kilted_One> if I can throw a thought out there....has no one every heard someone say something negative about the style/type/manner of play that was witnessed at a party?? and if you have would you still think we are "an accepting bunch"???
<tc_terri{MM}> can you imagine going into a sports bar and telling a bunch of jocks, you love a woman with a strap on.
<rick666> never judge others
<laralynn> I can LOL I'd do it too just to get a reaction LMAO
<tj6james6> lol, no tc, I could not, but then again, I have never gone into a sports bar packing a strap on either
<tc_terri{MM}> lol
<twilight_girl> perhaps they do not like that type of play kilted_one, but no one is making them watch
<kahlan{LO}> i'm sure that would turn some heads.... both as in "snickers" and "growls"
<tj6james6> it sure would, would probably have a few offers to watch as well
<laralynn> now if a male were to walk up to a bunch of jocks and say bend over I want to give you my strap on I do believe he'd meet a completely different reception than I would if I were to say I have one LOL
<Kilted_One> nods at twilight_girl, but my question is ...if they verbalize their thoughts to others are they as accepting as we are making our community out to be??
<tj6james6> I think that I would just say "that's nice" can I buy you a drink & take it from there
<tc_terri{MM}> The only time I've heard of something like that Kilted One, was about a fire play scene
<tc_terri{MM}> which I thought was a shame
<twilight_girl> it depends what they say kilted_one. if they say it where it cannot interupt the play and they say something like "I don't like that" or "I can't watch this" then I see nothing wrong. But if they say "That is wrong because it's not my thing." then they are not accepting
<tj6james6> it is always a shame when someone puts down others
<lilmunchkin> i don't think they are Kilted_One or they wouldn't have said anything at all
<tc_terri{MM}> I suppose some may feel that a particular type of play might be more appropriate in a different setting,
<Sweet1`> what is the payback for someone being judgemental? By that I mean, what do they get out of being that way?
<tj6james6> they make themselves feel a little more superior by saying it
<tc_terri{MM}> thats likely quite true tj6
<tj6james6> :) ty tc
<twilight_girl> to try to compensate for insurcurities prehaps sweet1?
<tj6james6> exactly twilight
<drauma{MzT}> they?!?
* Kilted_One thinks that at one time or another we all (including myself) verbalize something that someone else is doing, maybe descretely, but it is done all the same and I dont think that makes us as accepting as we would like to think we all are.
<`abi> I think that the kink community is no different from any other ... people fear what they do not understand and what they fear, they criticize
<Kilted_One> I simply feel that we are all "out spoken and opinionated" is all
<tj6james6> could be Kilted_One
<twilight_girl> are there any types of play that tend to recieve more critisim then others?
<rose{MD}> we can be i agree KO
<drauma{MzT}> people also criticize what they think wrong in hopes it will get better
<Sweet1`> critiquing technique and outright saying something is wrong are not the same
<drauma{MzT}> nods
<kneels> i agree Kilted_One
<kneels> abi..there are many things i do not fear and do not agree with
<rick666> who decides what is over the line?
<kneels> every person has a different line
<tj6james6> I think the Dom/me & sub should decide, between themselves, what is over the line
<drauma{MzT}> each for oncself
<laralynn> only the participants so far as I can tell rick...I don't think anyone else has the right to tell anyone what they're doing is over the line
<drauma{MzT}> unless one has a duty to do so, a a dungeon monitor or a mentor would
<rick666> can't see having a fetish and calling someone elses wrong
<drauma{MzT}> sometimes a close freind will presume that right
<tj6james6> in My mind, that should be the only time S/someone other than the participants should interefere
<drauma{MzT}> ah, but thqat is interfereing at the time, vs discussion of it after, both involve criticism
<laralynn> there are exceptions though because not everyone comes into this lifestyle for reasons like most of the rest of us...they use this lifestyle as an excuse to play their sick games to hurt others
<drauma{MzT}> and, what I think of could well involve criticsm of a kink one shares
<tj6james6> but that is what the Monitor or Dungeon Master is there for, to make sure everything is SSCF
<Kilted_One> rick666 I dont think we go that far I think we simply state what we feel about what they are doing (not so much as saying it is wrong) and in doing so we are not being as accepting as we think we are...the other person/s if they were to hear the comments maybe not view them as comments and see them more as critizism
<rick666> some things may shock me a bit, but most make me think..hmmmmm...
<tj6james6> thinking is a good thing sometimes
<tj6james6> it makes U/us look a little deeper into O/ourselves
<Sweet1`> but KO, in stating we are not comfortable with another play style doesn't mean we are not accepting of it for those people
<laralynn> I agree with you Sweet
<Sweet1`> we may not want it for ourselves
<twilight_girl> I agree sweet1. there are come types of play that really do not interest me, but if other people enjoy that, then good for them for doing what they enjoy
<tj6james6> but that does not mean they can not do it for themselves
<rick666> I like to be very open minded, if I haven't tryed it, can't judge it
<rick666> some of the best things shock you first, then you have to try it
<rose{MD}> though i may not want to experience it does not mean i close my mind to maybe someday trying those very things.
<drauma{MzT}> well, there are a few forms of play that are a bit over the top in almost everyones eyes; snuff play for example
<laralynn> and some things shock you when you try them LOL
<Kilted_One> let me try and explain my thoughts another way Sweet1`.....you overhear someone say that they dont like the way you do (insert whatever you want here) would this make you feel positive?? make you feel they are "not accepting you"?? see what I mean, the comments when heard from the other side are viewed differently
<Sweet1`> sometimes it just takes the planting of the seed in one's mind to want to try something new
<rose{MD}> i know that is true Sweet1
<tj6james6> yes, ,it does Sweet1
<laralynn> that's when you turn to them look them right square in the eyes and say if you don't like it go elsewhere where you don't have to see it
<Sweet1`> KO, i don't take comments like that personally, or pay much attention to them
<rick666> most poeple arn't as open minded as they like to think they are
<Sweet1`> i do what i do for me/my partner
<tj6james6> W/we have never played in public, so I do not know how I would react
<drauma{MzT}> consider this - one night MzTyger n I were sceneing publicly, in a club on Long Island. Seated nearby watching were a Mistress n her submissive, and a Domme friend of Mztygers.
<tj6james6> I would hope I would consider that the person may not understand what puts me into Domme space and leave it at that
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<drauma{MzT}> as we were sceeninging i was deliberatly giving MzTyger some verbal feedback, and it wasnt soft
* BernieRoehl beams proudly at his ModBot, doing its job
<tj6james6> lol
<drauma{MzT}> the submissive made comment along the lines of 'what a wuss...'
<drauma{MzT}> aqnd, his own Mistress gave him such a look...
<rick666> whats next............new guy
<drauma{MzT}> for him, the stoic silent scene was normal, for us it is useful feedback MzTyger apreciates
<rose{MD}> To each their own
<BernieRoehl> Before we wrap up for the evening, is there anyone who'd like to moderate an upcoming discussion? I already have a couple of volunteers, but we're still looking for a few more. Just /msg me if you're able to help.
<drauma{MzT}> I am sure the difference formed a lesson for him later on, tho I wasnt there to see it
<BernieRoehl> So, any last-minute thoughts on our acceptance (or lack of acceptance) of other peoples' kinks?
<lilmunchkin> treat others as we would have them treat us
<tj6james6> I like to think that I am accepting, I have not seen it all yet, so I do not know for sure
<tj6james6> good point lilmunchkin
<drauma{MzT}> tolerance is needed, and is a key element of the respect we all need to learn how to show
<rose{MD}> All you can do is try to be open minded.
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Varky> :)