February 9, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Submission: Obedience, Compliance... or Gift?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmm kewl ,, I havent gotten a gift in a while *evil chuckle*
<maidenEarth> Unmoderated again?
<BraveHeart2> nor me!!
<rhiannon{KO}> sooo is submission an act of obedience? compliance? or a gift, and if it is a gift, who is the gift for???hummmmm
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yes maidenEarth ,,, that means we can pick on you
<maidenEarth> well, as long as you do it with love...
<BraveHeart2> I think it probably starts out as agift
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lets look at just one at a time ,,,,
<Sweet1`> and is it a recycled gift?
* rhiannon{KO} giggles at Sweet1` one would think that at times.
<maidenEarth> reduce, reuse recycle
<BraveHeart2> as time gores on it probably turns into compliance
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what does a sub get in return for the gift ?
<BraveHeart2> everlasting love and evotion
<jewel`{F}> guidance, training, love,
<swee`t`fire> good evening all
<rhiannon{KO}> is there such a thing as everlasting love?
<Sweet1`> should you expect anything in return for a gift?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> dont forget structure and direction
<rose{MD}> The sub gets the gift of His Domination
<BraveHeart2> with the right person sure
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I dont think so rhiannon{KO} ,,, I get tired after about an hour
<dana_foreveralways> if submission is a gift then isnt what the Dominant gives also a gift?
* jewel`{F} snickers
<BraveHeart2> yes it is
<DarkAngel^{rt}> a good way to look at it dana_foreveralways
<Sweet1`> why?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oops ,, damn cap lock
<Sweet1`> if you are in a relationship, what you do/how you feel for the other person is considered a gift?
<BraveHeart2> I don't think expect is the right term
<DarkAngel^{rt}> we each go into a relationship seeking things we need
<BraveHeart2> we have to be prepared to give and take
<BraveHeart2> on both sides
<dana_foreveralways> doesnt see my submission as a gift... its simply part of who i am...
* DarkAngel^{rt} likes to take ,,*evil smirk*
<rhiannon{KO}> i agree dana_foreveralways...that is the way i look at it.
<maiden-out> I think that the power exchange is something both people need to work at, like any relationship, and it is a mutual gift. If one partner doesn't fulfill the "contract" then the relationship falters.
<BraveHeart2> yes I agree Dana
<Sweet1`> so a nilla relationship can then also be considered a gift
<BraveHeart2> of course
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmmm maybe it is a better way to look at it ,,,, I also tire at times with the "gift" concept
<dana_foreveralways> i think so... if thats how you choose to express the relationship
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I like "needs" better
<DarkAngel^{rt}> does a sub therefore "need" to submit to feel their own power?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> or feel complete ?
<Sweet1`> since each is seeking fulfillment, how can it be considered a gift?
<Sweet1`> a gift of selfishness?
<BraveHeart2> to truly make a partnership whether nilla or bdsm work both partners have to work hard at it
<dana_foreveralways> would not exactly say power... more like strengh
<BraveHeart2> otherwise it fails
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I worked her hard this afternoon BraveHeart2
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I agree Sweet1` ,,,, we are each in it for something ,,, else we would not be there
<Sweet1`> exactly DA
<BraveHeart2> partnerships fail because of lack of commitment or interest or love
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but within that concept ,,, what is your opinion of obediance?
<dana_foreveralways> or responsibility...
<BraveHeart2> well once the partnership is well on the way then resposiblity and obedianec can come into play np
<DarkAngel^{rt}> is obediance the measuring stick we guage submission with ?
<BraveHeart2> not necessarilly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> could you explain that BraveHeart2 ?
<BraveHeart2> it comes with longevity of the partnership not right away
* arhiannah ties Justice down with duct tape
<dana_foreveralways> ive told my hard/soft limits to the Dominiant... They in turn lead... i trust the Dominiant to lead where He will... isnt obedience part of submission
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I agree with dana_foreveralways ,, but not BraveHeart2 on that point
<BraveHeart2> I mean if you expect obedience immediately in the relationship you may get what you think is obediance but actually only get subservience
<DarkAngel^{rt}> once a relationship is formed BraveHeart2 ,,, trust etc is there ,,, why would you think submission shouldnt be ?
<BraveHeart2> because the other partner is wanting of something
<Sweet1`> how so BraveHeart2?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ahh ,, dont you mean compliance then BraveHeart2 ?
<BraveHeart2> well I feel both partners as has been said are wanting of something
<BraveHeart2> but perhaps they are not completely sure what that want is
<Sweet1`> if the partners are compatible in what they want, obedience shouldn't be an issue...
<dana_foreveralways> but isnt that part of the journey... needs change as we grow
<BraveHeart2> and as the partnership continues they begin to develop more wants
<BraveHeart2> of course they do
<DarkAngel^{rt}> MMmmmm not sure what you mean by that BraveHeart2 ,,, I am a little lost ,,, lets look at Submission ,,, is there a difference between obediance and compliance ?
<BraveHeart2> yes of course there is
<BraveHeart2> obedianec can be for many reasons
<BraveHeart2> as can compliance
<DarkAngel^{rt}> perhaps both are submission ,,, but you are looking at them from different angles
<BraveHeart2> comliance could be just done through needs
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I expect obidience from my slave ,,, she thus shows me her submission ,,,, in trusting Master ,, and doing whatever knowing I will take care of her needs
<maiden-out> Darn dial up, what did i miss?
<BraveHeart2> obediance on the other hand could be done as a way to gain something whether respect or something deeper
<sprin2Life> obediance is done because the sub wishes to please his/her Dom/me & knows He/She will take care of them, no matter what
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol,, you will have to check the log maiden-out ,,,, essentually IMO, we are debating words with the same meaning
<BraveHeart2> i think in the first instance most subs obey to gain the master's trust and love
<kesha{AL}> compliance is done out of courtesy, imho, obedience is something you do out of regard for the Dominance of the Master, the hierarchy if you will
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I dont yet see your difference BraveHeart2
<Sweet1`> to comply is to ct according to another's wishes or rules... obedience is not resisting....
<sprin2Life> compliance is done because you want to, but expecting nothing in return
<Sweet1`> to act according
<BraveHeart2> hmm that's an interseting statement Sweet1`
<DarkAngel^{rt}> interesting flavouring Sweet1` ,,,,,
<Sweet1`> essentially, it's the same thing...lol
<BraveHeart2> you think so sprin2Life
<sprin2Life> yes BraveHeart, I do
<DarkAngel^{rt}> so perhaps compliance is an emotionless factual result?
<BraveHeart2> I can see how one would think that the two are one and the same but are they really?
<jewel`{F}> Compliance \Com*pli"ance\, n. [See {Comply}.]
<jewel`{F}> 1. The act of complying; a yielding; as to a desire, demand,
<jewel`{F}> or proposal; concession; submission.
<sprin2Life> it could very well be, We all expect obediance from our childrent, not just compliance
<victoria_angel{Flint}> DA, are you saying that a submissive should be emotionless when complying, then i disagree
<kesha{AL}> when we comply with someones wishes, there is no acceptance of will, it is a courtesy, a follow the rules to keep the peace type of thing, ..
<jewel`{F}> Obedience \O*be"di*ence\, n. [F. ob['e]dience, L. obedientia,
<jewel`{F}> oboedientia. See {Obedient}, and cf.{Obeisance}.]
<jewel`{F}> 1. The act of obeying, or the state of being obedient;
<jewel`{F}> compliance with that which is required by authority;
<jewel`{F}> subjection to rightful restraint or control.
<sprin2Life> & to me, submissives our O/our children
<DarkAngel^{rt}> MMm well perhaps we might not all agree on the fuzzy parts ,,,,
<Sweet1`> we may comply to or the rules, laws because we feel we have to...not because we want to
<Sweet1`> or obey that should read
<Sir_StephenS> I'd say there is much more to submission than just obedience, or compliance; those terms both sound too passive to describe what a sub does
<kesha{AL}> when we obey, we are accepting of the rules, wanting to serve, being obedient
<BraveHeart2> now we are getting somewhere
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no victoria_angel{Flint} ,,, but if I watched you comply with anouthers orders ,,, I am only seeing the results
<sprin2Life> Yes Sir, ,there is more to submissiveness than that
<sprin2Life> a submissive gives the gift of submissivesness because he/she wishes to please the Dom/me with all hi/her soul
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what are the benifits of submission ?
<BraveHeart2> A true sub does because he/she wants to and the compliance and obediance is automatic
<kesha{AL}> is submission a gift?
<Sweet1`> it's because they want something in return sprin2Life
<dana_foreveralways> but isnt that part of obedience... obeying the Dominants wishes even when we're not sure where They are going... or whether we feel we want to explore there?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> A) of the sub ,,, B) of the Dom?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> well, DA, i have a whole slant on submissiveness, and although i believe it can be taught / trained in some, in others it is natural, that natural submissiveness is different
<Sir_StephenS> think of a sub who is active, anticipative...the compliance is just the start
<BraveHeart2> yes of course subbmission is a gift given to the Dom/Domme
<pretti_n_kink> submissiveness is no more a gift than dominance
<kesha{AL}> BraveHeart2, that very well may be your take on it .. but it's not mine
<BraveHeart2> I agree with victoria_angel{Flint}
<kesha{AL}> so there is no 'of course' about it
<maidenEarth> Ok, at the risk of trying to nail jello to a TREE, I'd like to know what the role of submissive boils down to?
<sprin2Life> yes Sweet1, they do, they wish the satisfaction of pleasing the Dom/me and they know that the Dom/me will take care of them over the long haul
<victoria_angel{Flint}> thank you BH2
<DarkAngel^{rt}> we all do victoria_angel{Flint} ,,, it is someting that grows in each relationship ,,, and as long as it works ,,, it can be different in each relationship
<victoria_angel{Flint}> no, i mean, it was before someone became submissive to another
<sprin2Life> to me, submissiveness is a gift, if the sub did not wish to be with You, he/she would not be, there fore it is a gift
<victoria_angel{Flint}> what grows is the trust and respect
<Sweet1`> sprin2Life, they are looking for self satisfaction in return, having their own needs met as well...it's not a 'selfless act'
<BraveHeart2> I agree DA no to relationships are the same or for that matter similar other than there is two or perhaps more partners
<victoria_angel{Flint}> that is what i believe makes the relationship
<sprin2Life> just as Dominance is a gift to the sub
<maidenEarth> I am hearing a lot of stuff I can't relate to myself, being so new and working at the power exchange with my partner
<abitbent> i wonder if we often spend too much time fitting this lifestyle into slots, when really all we are looking for is compatibility between two people.
<Sir_StephenS> maidenEarth, there is no 'role' of a submissive...trying to define one leads down the road of d/s politicking
<Sweet1`> a nilla relationship is based on the same thing...and one does not consider that a gift
<victoria_angel{Flint}> abitbent - correct, there are some who are either D or s, yet as a pair, may not work together in that role
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I dont folow the gift concept ,,, I ascribe to the needs model ,,,, I need her submission ,, she needs my dominance
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and we can each walk away
<kesha{AL}> DarkAngel, agreed
<sprin2Life> yes, marriage is agift as well, from the husband to the wife, and the wife to the husband, the gift of themselves
<victoria_angel{Flint}> having a good vanilla relationship can be a gift also -
<DarkAngel^{rt}> so the concept of the sub being the "master" of a gift ,, or being the only one in the drivers seat is IMO ,, false
<Sir_StephenS> if someone wants to call an act of submission or dominance a gift, bid deal...let them
<kesha{AL}> a gift from who or what?
<BraveHeart2> I think we are dwelling too much on the word and not the actuallity
<sprin2Life> a gift from one person to the other
<DarkAngel^{rt}> humans are greedy animals ,,,, we need shelter ,, we need food ,, we need submission or dominance
<BraveHeart2> you forgot one!!
<BraveHeart2> Love
<DarkAngel^{rt}> hooters ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<Sweet1`> lol
<Sir_StephenS> I think you are talking about the bottom of the needs pyramid, DA..hehe
<sprin2Life> Sir, what is at the top of the pyramid then, may I ask?
<Sir_StephenS> at the top there are things like self-actualization...if I remember my pyramid scheme correctly
<dana_foreveralways> didnt see leather flogger in dat list
<Sweet1`> self-actualization is at the top...
<BraveHeart2> I think as a Master when I give a sub my collar that is a very strong gift
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i wish to express my opinion here for a moment....i have been submissive longer than in my relationship! i have a manner, which isn't always in that role, yet, i can be submissive even on the phone = it is a tone, a manner, i know no other way, and i can be submissive not only to Flint, i can be submissive to others, yet, i will not be there partner, yet they can pick it up
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ok ,,, lets look at something else ,,, how about reluctant submission ,,, what does that do for each ?
<Sir_StephenS> hehe Sweet1`...ty
<Sweet1`> yw
<Sweet1`> that may explain why most do not really get 'into' bdsm, d/s until later in life
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and at times Sweet1` ,,, I have to self-actualize by myself *perverted chuckle*
<victoria_angel{Flint}> Sweet1`, i though the bdsm d/s was 'real sex'
<Sir_StephenS> reluctant submissive...yah!
<sprin2Life> reluctant submission, gives the Dom/me the challenge of trying to catch and keep
<Sweet1`> lol @ DA
<dana_foreveralways> reluctant submission?... perhaps talking would help
<Sir_StephenS> the thrill of the chase et al...
<BraveHeart2> I have to go night all
<pretti_n_kink> and is the *challenge* not one of the best experiences... if it results in her/his submission?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> dana_foreveralways ,, I was thinking in the area of a sub who needs to feel control to feel their submission
<victoria_angel{Flint}> a reluctant submissive can be there to add momentum
<DarkAngel^{rt}> those who like to make thier Dom/me work for it
<dana_foreveralways> ahhhh... now i understand... lol
<maidenEarth> any time in my life I have submitted reluctantly it was with resentment, how do YOU mean reluctant?
<sprin2Life> is not D/s the sub giving of whole self and power exchange?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the far oposite of a door mat (which we should examine as well)
<Sweet1`> sex is sex...biologically speaking...and that can be met easily...
<sprin2Life> D/s is not necessarily about sex
<Sweet1`> the physical aspects of it
<Sweet1`> self-actualization goes beyond the raw physical need
<sprin2Life> ]it is about power exchange and trusting one another enuf to do that power exchange
<victoria_angel{Flint}> true, but for me, it was never just missionary
<dana_foreveralways> its not about sex... its a mindset... bdsm is just the physical side
<Sir_StephenS> there should be an element of reluctance in 'some' submission...otherwise you are just doing what you want to do anyways..correct?
<sprin2Life> aye Sir, very true
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmmm the feel of power is heady stuff for me Sir_StephenS
<victoria_angel{Flint}> the reluctantancy could be part of the pleasure for both
<Sweet1`> or you have found someone extremely compatible with yourself
<sprin2Life> if You had full submission, it would be all doormat, there would be no challenge
<dana_foreveralways> relcutance or just not really sure where the Dominant is leading
<dana_foreveralways> has felt that scared excited feeling but i dont think its reluctance on my part
<Sir_StephenS> you are not trusting in your Dom dana?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmmm no dana_foreveralways ,,, I orrigionally was looking at a submissive who needed to be forced into their submission ,,,, almost needing mental S/M to "get there"
<pretti_n_kink> having his/her submission completely does NOT make her a door mat... if effort has been needed to get her/him there
<Sweet1`> it's a nervous anticipation
<DarkAngel^{rt}> at times ,,, I want a door mat ,,lol,,, other times ,, I love the chalenge
<dana_foreveralways> i did trust Him completely Sir StephenS... which is why i felt safe obeying Him... perhaps i have misunderstood reluntance
<Sir_StephenS> I've got nothing against doormats...doormats are people too
<DarkAngel^{rt}> thus I do use compliance as a measuring stick
<Sir_StephenS> in fact, very nice ones at that
<sprin2Life> reluctance for me, = the thrill of the chase and capture
<dana_foreveralways> ok... i saw it as being unsure of oneself and the Dominant... afraid to really try
<Sir_StephenS> ah..the thrill of the chase....release the hounds!
<dana_foreveralways> lol
<sprin2Life> lol SIr
<DarkAngel^{rt}> if I do not see compliance ,,, I turn up the Dom engine (along with communication) till I see compliance
<swee`t`fire> excuse me, but "forced submission" seems almost an oxymoron.. i have a great deal of difficulty in wrappning my mind around such a concept
<pretti_n_kink> do hounds climb trees?
<sprin2Life> no dana, it is not necessarily that
<ravenswolf> lol depends on what they're chasing
<dana_foreveralways> same here sweet fire
<ravenswolf> mine tries occasionally
<Sir_StephenS> not very well pretti_n_kink
<sprin2Life> I love the chase, it is thrilling and exhilerating
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well swee`t`fire ,, some do need to be forced to go where they really want,,,, it can be considdered mental S/M ,,, like a male sub who needs to be humiliated to the point where they can submit and get to their sub space
<Sir_StephenS> I understand your dilemma, Sweet1`...forced submission seems a connundrun...maybe the right term is forced topping
<maidenEarth> dar
<sprin2Life> the capture is exhilerating in that You have won, so far, the sub may, or may not decide to give in completely, thereby making it a thrill in itself to keep the sub
<maidenEarth> DarkAngel^{rt}, is that still willing tho, I was seeing reluctance as unwilling
<swee`t`fire> i AM submission.. but i don't submit to just anyone... so if someone tried to force me... you see my confusion?
<swee`t`fire> i AM submissive, i mean
<dana_foreveralways> perhaps thats the seduction... are Ya Dom even? sorry i kinda find that silly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no maidenEarth ,,, only in comparison ,,, all want to eventually submit ,,, else they would not be there in the first place
<DarkAngel^{rt}> definetly submission would referance within a relationship swee`t`fire
<dana_foreveralways> even is really code for enough
<Sweet1`> reluctance is a mental or emotional opposition to a course of action
<DarkAngel^{rt}> does anyone have a question about submission ? ... lets all get back on the same track
<Sweet1`> nervous anticipation while may be interpreted as the same, is a highly charged state, but at the same time looking forward to what is about to happen
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I agree Sweet1` ,,,
<sprin2Life> exactly Sweet1
<Sir_StephenS> I have a question about submission: if the subs idea of being submissive is different from the Doms idea of being submissive, what do you do
<sprin2Life> anticipation is it exactly
<Sweet1`> find someone who is compatible...lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good question ,,,, what does everyone think ?
<dana_foreveralways> lol
<sprin2Life> Sir, if the sub and Dom/me are not compatible in that way, find another sub
<Sir_StephenS> lol..give up so easily?
<sprin2Life> & help the sub to find a Dom/me who is more compatible with them
<victoria_angel{Flint}> agree on the middle ground, which might not be 50/50 - remembering that what ever happens is negotiated
<dana_foreveralways> talk it through.. there are other means such as finding Ssomeone who can fill a need the Ppartner prefers not to... communication
<DarkAngel^{rt}> are they uncompatible Sir_StephenS ?
<sprin2Life> You could try to change them, thereby having another challenge, but, do We really want to change someone & get them to do something which is against their basic natures?
<swee`t`fire> shouldn't the prospective couple compare notes on vision before gettting together? else, they might find themselves with completely different ideas of needs...
<Sir_StephenS> I don't think any pair is 'compatible' perfectly...there are always differences of opinion..so you need a better strategy than to run around looking for new partners
<dana_foreveralways> if they are not compatible in many ways.. just like a vanilla relationship... perhaps its time to reevaluate the relationship
<maidenEarth> Are most people here 24/7 D/s? Is anyone else a switch? I am finding it difficult to fit my mind around all of the information here, and apply it to my limited experience.
<Sweet1`> depends on the differences Sir_StephenS..and how you may be able to overcome them to your mutual satisfaction
<sprin2Life> I am a switch maiden
<Sweet1`> otherwise resentment will eventually rear it's ugly head
<Sir_StephenS> ohh..and it can be an ugly head indeed Sweet1`
<sprin2Life> resentment is the one thing no one wants in a reltionship, whether D or s
<DarkAngel^{rt}> there is always training in any relationship ,,, and that goes both ways
<sprin2Life> yes DA, it does
<maidenEarth> sprin2Life, what do you do then, to balance the Dominant with the submissive sides in your relationship?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> can you form that into a question for us all maidenEarth ?
<sprin2Life> I am new to this, but I go with whichever side happens to be dominant that day
<maidenEarth> DarkAngel^{rt}, training in our case is difficult, likw the blind leading the stupid, since we are both inexperienced...
<sprin2Life> if I am feeling Dominant then my husband/partner goes with it as well
<sprin2Life> if I am feeling submissive, then he def goes with that, hel oves to Dominate me sometiems
<Sir_StephenS> why doesn't anyone ever use the word 'compromise' in the bdsm world...is that a taboo word?
<sprin2Life> but, they are both just a part of who I am, I do not 'try' to balance them, they are just there
<dana_foreveralways> i agree Sir Stephens...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> no compromise isn't a taboo word, it is an non-negotiated item, a stale mate,
<maidenEarth> sprin2Life, Okay, question to all, how do you balance D/s in yourself, and in your relationship?
<dana_foreveralways> how so victoria angel...?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> flavoring that with the topic of Submission:Obedience, Compliance
<Sir_StephenS> thats an interesting comment victoria_angel{Flint}
<sprin2Life> maiden, I do not know how I balance it, it is just a part of who I am
<victoria_angel{Flint}> well, i believe every 'item' in a d/s relationship is negotiated, yet, some may not be fulfilled, as the conditions to which both partners are agreed to may not have been ironed out
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ahhh good point victoria_angel{Flint} ,,, so if an item is not negociated ,,, need there be submission ?
<dana_foreveralways> looks at contracts as working document... changing as each partner does
<`abi> why would you use the word compromise Sir_StephenS?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i have an 'item' i will not be obiendient to, comply with, or whatever, as i have not found the 'non threatening happy medium' to agree to it
<sprin2Life> just as I was born a woman, I was born a switch
<victoria_angel{Flint}> excuse the spelling
<DarkAngel^{rt}> is that covered as a limit victoria_angel{Flint} ?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i wanted to get my point out
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it is a limit to be eventually dealt with, however, it is currently a NO in my contract
<victoria_angel{Flint}> not a maybe
<sprin2Life> victoria, there are some things I will not bend on either
<dana_foreveralways> but hard limits are just that.. not to be touched...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it isn't a hard limit
<victoria_angel{Flint}> that is somethign different to me
<sprin2Life> very true dana, that is why they are hard limits
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that brings up the point of new limits ,,,, not discussed before ,,, they need communication before submission is expected
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it is an item, which is threatening to me, therefore i cannot agree to it until it isn't threatening
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that is reasonable victoria_angel{Flint}
<maidenEarth> I better stop here before I need extensive therapy
* DarkAngel^{rt} whispers to maidenEarth ,,,, this is our therapy dear
<Sir_StephenS> `abi, my basic conception of a d/s relation is that the sub has a much entitlement to satisfaction, in terms that the SUB defines, as does the Dom...and I don't see any way to achieve that without compromising
<sprin2Life> I have spent several months talking with someone, just recently we have started discussing the BDSM in our lives
* maidenEarth huddles in the corner humming "sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't..."
<sprin2Life> lol@maiden
<victoria_angel{Flint}> heehee m
<DarkAngel^{rt}> if there is something that has been discussed ,,, and isnt a limit , I do expect compliance ,, thus submission
<victoria_angel{Flint}> well said Sir_StephenS
<`abi> I'm not sure how you achieve it by compromising Sir_StephenS .. perhaps you could expand
<sprin2Life> if there is something the sub feels is threatening, it should be on the soft limits list, so that is can eventually be over come
<victoria_angel{Flint}> again, DA, you are lumping compliance with submission
<dana_foreveralways> agrees completely Sir Stephen.. especially in new relationships
<victoria_angel{Flint}> does that mean, compliance with Your wishes? = submission
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ???
<Sir_StephenS> you really want me to expand? lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yes victoria_angel{Flint} ,, I am ,, as I said before ,, I use compliance as my measuring stick ,,,, not all need to agree
<DarkAngel^{rt}> obediance if you preffer
<`abi> yes, SirStephen, I do ... because I don't understand how that works ... if I compromise my needs, how are they being met?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> well, DA, i'd like to see You in action, when someone will not comply - or be obedient
<victoria_angel{Flint}> you seem to sweet for that characterization
<DarkAngel^{rt}> LOL
<sprin2Life> victoria, in my mind, that is where the fun begins, for both D & s
<victoria_angel{Flint}> agreed sprin2Life
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yes victoria_angel{Flint} ,,,I am just a big sweet guy ,,lol
<sprin2Life> :)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i like to be a tease at times
<Sir_StephenS> everyone compromises their needs...otherwise all hell would break loose
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but mainly that is because I only ever Dom my slave ,,lol ,,, I know some think they can Dom whoever is clasified as a sub ,,, not this dude
<`abi> do they Sir_StephenS?
<sprin2Life> sometimes a little hell is what we need to put things back on track
<victoria_angel{Flint}> see, you have two sides
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ;-)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> spice is fun
<sprin2Life> kink is the spice in my life
<Sir_StephenS> hehe..where are the Freudians
* Sir_StephenS holds up his hand
<`abi> I believe they slipped away shareena__
<`abi> oops Sir_StephenS
<sprin2Life> who needs Freudians?
<dana_foreveralways> sometimes we forget that this is fun and we just mere humans... lol... each having their own unique view..
<Sir_StephenS> hmm...anyone want to lie on my couch?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> anyone who has ever watched me play knows ; I allow my rosethorns to be sassy ,,, the interplay is great for communication and allows me to guide the play so she reaches her submission and goal of sub space
<swee`t`fire> been listening... and i have to make the following comment... i don't see my submission as a gift. i see it as fitting my puzzle piece of submission to the Dom's puzzle piece of Dominant.. and its not going to be a perfect fit.. which is where the fun comes from...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> nicely put Sweet1`
<victoria_angel{Flint}> err
<dana_foreveralways> well said sweet fire
<victoria_angel{Flint}> swee't'fire
<sprin2Life> fun comes from many places inside myself, each place a puzzle in itself
<Sir_StephenS> the never ending journey...on and on etc
<victoria_angel{Flint}> sorry
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that works for you swee`t`fire ,, and I follow a very close view as well
<DarkAngel^{rt}> anyone else like to end with their thoughts of submission ?
<Sir_StephenS> yes...I love submissives
<swee`t`fire> and when i am submissive in doint those things i do not WANT to do, then my Dominant is doing their job too.. and the pieces fit even better.. and over time.. the fit becomes better and better... but never perfect.. and perfection isn't required..
<DarkAngel^{rt}> to me - submission is my drug of choice
<krista-F> this girls as well DA
<`abi> I see my submission as compliance ...compliance with my need to express certain parts of myself
<sprin2Life> submission is my meeting my needs
<Sir_StephenS> lets hear it for the submissives..hip hip hooray!
<sprin2Life> hip hip hooray!
<Sir_StephenS> where would we be without them
<DarkAngel^{rt}> to get my drug (submission) ,, I needs to provide Dominance properly so she can get her "fix"
<sprin2Life> just a world full of Dom/mes
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<abitbent> Dommes... where?