February 2, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "How to Survive the Loss of a BDSM Relationship". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Kilted_One> and I thought that I had a tough time with one of my relationships when it ended
<Sweet1`> i really should have written a book....i just might yet...
<Kilted_One> well I had it thrown at me
<Kilted_One> anyone want to start the discussion off??
<Kilted_One> anyone got a panacea that they can pass along
<Justice> perhaps no one has actually survived one
* Sweet1` is still going
<Sweet1`> lol
<dana_foreveralways> is still looking for the miracle cure... smiles
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* jen{SE} wonders sometimes how "TO" survive a BDSM relationship *lol*
<dana_foreveralways> lol
<Sweet1`> lol
<jen{SE}> on the serious side, i think you survive it like you survive anything, a day at a time
* jen{SE} and good friends to bitch to *grins*
<Sweet1`> amen to that!!
<Prince_of_Evil{sd}> Hello
<Sweet1`> good friends are a necessity
<Kilted_One> it is a little bit like any major loss in your life...you get really sad, you grieve, you cry, you pick yourself up again and you move along...knowing that around the corner as one door closed another will open
<jen{SE}> yeppers
<`abi> okay...let's take this in a slightly different direction ... prenuptual contracts are becoming more popular in vanilla relationships ... what kinds of things might people put into effect at the 'beginning' of a relationship in anticipation of a possible 'end'?
<dana_foreveralways> it helped just looking within... silly as it may sound... taking pride in my submission to Him
<Kilted_One> could you consider a BDSM contract to be something similar to what you are suggesting abigaille
<thisonekneels> i was once devastateded by a Dom ending our relationship..though to his credit he had never made those types of promises...but it was very difficult having had grown a little dependent and submissive to him even though it wasnt a "serious" relationship yet
<dana_foreveralways> im not sure i understand the question abi... how do you write in how to treat an emotional wound..
<thisonekneels> other that that..i havent had one leave me..i always broke it off
<jen{SE}> a bdsm contract i don't believe will hold water in court, where a really bad breakup can end lifestyle or vanilla
<`abi> but can it help ease the transition anyway jen?
<Justice> ok - we need to drag kneels' ex-partners in here for the discussion
<Kilted_One> agreed jen it is not legal, but it does give a basis for "expectations" from both parties
<jen{SE}> i would hope so, seeing what was agreed to in writing in the beginning may help calmer heads prevail
<thisonekneels> well i think it is different for the Doms..part of a subs role is to grwo dependent
<thisonekneels> lol Justice..i am sure they are fine
<Kilted_One> I dont see it being any different kneels, I grow attached to my slave as much as she is to me
<thisonekneels> i do not know about contracts..but..i think just as any other aspect of a Dom..a girl has to have some expectations..an honorable Dom is not going to leave a dependent sub scrambling..it isnt dafe
<thisonekneels> safe
<jen{SE}> someone once told me i have to be able to take care of myself before even considering continuing in this lifestyle
<thisonekneels> agreed Kilted_One..you would be just as hurt..but you would not be left without the ability to function independently... rhiannon{KO} would have to re-learn all those behaviours
<Sweet1`> contracts etc all get thrown out the window in a break up...specially when it's one sided
<jen{SE}> i agree with Sweet1`, when things get ugly, they get ugly, all the honour and the rules about outing people disappear
<thisonekneels> oh i agree with that jen{SE}..all subs should be secure when entering a bdsm relationship..but lets face it..many arent..they cling to the Dom to guide them..then if he is ripped away..they cant cope
<Sweet1`> excuse me?? why would that be?
<jen{SE}> hmmm, biting tongue hear
<Sweet1`> if they could before, why can't they after?
<dana_foreveralways> so how do W/we start to heal... especially a submissive who gives all...
<thisonekneels> but isnt that part of submitting? trusting them to be there no matter what? so then is a delusion because there are not alot of long term bdsm relationships out there
<Sweet1`> all go thru the emotional turmoil of the break up
<Sweet1`> but they can still look after themselves
<jen{SE}> exchange of power
<thisonekneels> because Sweet1`..that IS what submission is about..giving up independence
<star^dust{PoE}> its a willing thing though
<star^dust{PoE}> You cant give what you didnt have
<Sweet1`> so what is marriage?
<star^dust{PoE}> So to remove it means your independant again
<star^dust{PoE}> What about switchs?
<thisonekneels> the Dom may go threw just as much pain...yet it isnt the pain of the breakup that devastates the subs..it is the inability to cope
<star^dust{PoE}> They never fully submit or Dominate
<rhiannon{KO}> alot of Dom's want the submissive to be 100% totally dependant on their Dom. Some would go as far as making sure they cannot function at the same level before they were together.
<Sweet1`> you no longer have your independence but you are not submitting
<jen{SE}> survival instincts take over, or should take over
<star^dust{PoE}> All relationships are contracted
<star^dust{PoE}> Whether spoken or unspoken
<Sweet1`> you find strength when you least think you have it
<thisonekneels> yes rhiannon{KO}..my point exactly..if they are isolated and have no finances while in this long term relationship which is their mutual choice...then how do they cope with the loss?..i am saying..any Dom that demands those things as part of His lifestyle..hopefully will also help the sub regain her feet
<star^dust{PoE}> The better ones are ones you realize will always constantly change
<star^dust{PoE}> As the needs change
<jen{SE}> and friends give you a kick in the butt when you need it
* jen{SE} still has bruises i needed to get
<dana_foreveralways> true Sweet1 but isnt there a common thread... how to find that balance again
<Kilted_One> agreed dana, I could provide accomodation to my "ex' slave, furniture, living expenses....but is that all that is required??
<dana_foreveralways> what of emotional aftercare... (for lack of a better phrase... grins)
<jen{SE}> and KO for how long? is it never ending
<thisonekneels> i think she also needs mental support
<Kilted_One> and if the break up is an unpleasant one how can emotional support be given??
<jen{SE}> Sometine thisonekneels, the Dominant would not be the best person to get the support from
<jen{SE}> that is where friends come in
<thisonekneels> no i dont think the Dom is obligated for it to be never ending...that would be unreasonable..i think he needs to give her a good start and make sure she has friends ect for support
<thisonekneels> i agree jen{SE}..actually..that is what i meant
<Kilted_One> jen, I guess that would depend on the circumstances at the time
<star^dust{PoE}> community support is always good... having other friends in the community..
<jen{SE}> agrees 100% with rhiannon{KO}
<rhiannon{KO}> thanks jen{SE}..;) but what did i say?????????????????? hehehe
<thisonekneels> lol..ok i was wondering
<jen{SE}> oops, should have been thisonekneels about never ending
* rhiannon{KO} giggles your so cute when you blush..;)
<jen{SE}> :-)
<jen{SE}> submissive does not equal helpless, should never equal helpless
<thisonekneels> and i think it should be in relation to their relationship , the intensity and the lifestyle they have lead
<jen{SE}> we will hurt, we will be a little disoreinted, but why assume we would be helpless
* drauma{MzT} thinks 'lots of choclate for me to eat'
<jen{SE}> hmmm, spelling is way off
<thisonekneels> but jen{SE}..that is some peoples way..to each their own..but that is why i said the Doms obligation comes down to what type of lifestyle they lead
<Sweet1`> how the dom reacts after the break up is a good indication of what type of dom he really is
<thisonekneels> some D/s couples live as the sub being helpless..that is the way they want it
<thisonekneels> absolutly my point Sweet1`
<drauma{MzT}> well, some view the submissive as weak generally, weak-minded, dependant...I dont agree wiht that, but some see it that way.
<jen{SE}> most responsible Dominants who want that level of control, leave the submissive with a trust account/cushion
<jen{SE}> responsiblity is still key on both sides
<thisonekneels> well they can veiw however they like..it is up to the individuals how they choose to live...i just meant that level of servitude..would equal a sub/slave being unable to cope alone at first
<drauma{MzT}> if the submissive isnt allowed to open doors, is required to defer to the dominants choice in all matters, then that setsup other problems for after the breakup of course
<Kilted_One> it could simply reflect the relationship that was lead or how it broke up too Sweet1`
<Kilted_One> it may not be the exact same the next time that it happened
<thisonekneels> well yes Kilted_One..i mean if the slave cheated lied and killed the cat..i think the Dom is off the hook
<Sweet1`> that is true KO, but when a dom breaks every 'rule' every statement, every promise, i would suspect he had no intentions of keeping them in the first place...and that may not change the next time
<drauma{MzT}> I know of one perfomring artist who was totally submissive, she was seriously affected by the loss of her DOminant life-partner; luckily his will included provision for a Guardian, and they did not lack for moneuy
<thisonekneels> it would depend on if he promised her forever or not Sweet1`
<Kilted_One> agree with both kneels and Sweet1`
<LrdThomas> how the sub reacts after the breakup indicates what type of sub she is.
<drauma{MzT}> sometimes the break in the relationship is not fault of either partner...
<Sweet1`> doesn't matter about forever thisonekneels...it matters about what promises were made for the 'split'
<earl{MS}> think a break up would be much more difficult emotionally than any other way
<thisonekneels> ok well then why...do we as subs enter into these relationships expecting them to last forever? marriages dont
<thisonekneels> agreed LrdThomas
<dana_foreveralways> agrees earl...
<Kilted_One> I think the same holds true for the submissive as well as the Dom, so I think the comment that I made holds true for both LT
<earl{MS}> this slave would survive financially but has serious doubt aboout his emotional state
<drauma{MzT}> well, we kinda need the relationship, even if it doesnt last forever...
<thisonekneels> yes but we all know both Doms and subs that have gone overboard after a break up
<drauma{MzT}> nods
<jen{SE}> it is not a Dom sub issue, it is a human issue
<Sweet1`> agreed jen
<jen{SE}> some end good, some end bad, some just end
<thisonekneels> i think you have to look at your own individual case and what you would need..Max and i have agreements
<Kilted_One> do you think there is any significant differences between a break up in a nilla relationship and a D/s one??
<rhiannon{KO}> i also find that there is alot of Dom's that hang around in the back burner, waiting for a certin relationship to end (as most of them do) and He is right at the submissives side offering that help, and guidance the wonded submissive needs.....Has anyone else found this???
<Sweet1`> yup
<earl{MS}> Kilted_One, yes definatly
<Sweet1`> lol, yes to rhiannon{KO}
<thisonekneels> grins at rhiannon{KO}..i wouldnt say Max hung around the back burner because he didnt know me much at the time..but he sure as hell swooped in and brushed me off
<dana_foreveralways> there is a deeper level of trust... more intense feelings... all emotions are in play... so yes very different dynamics between the two
<Sweet1`> as i said earlier thisonekneels, agreements don't always hold up when the relationship ends onesided
<rhiannon{KO}> yes, like cats after a wounded bird...hehehehehe...
* drauma{MzT} thinks more of sharks...
<jen{SE}> i don't, i think people like to believe there is, contracts etc, but i believe emotions take over in most cases
<rhiannon{KO}> lol
<rhiannon{KO}> yes jen{SE}, that is soooooooooo true.
<thisonekneels> actually..Max had asked me out at a fet..and i was dating someone outside the scene and it wasnt going well...when it broke up..he didnt find any dilemma about moving in...but nor did he pressure me...just dinner the Sob said..you have to eat right?
<drauma{MzT}> it is human to want some cuddles after a breakup, maybe some choclate soda therapy...
<drauma{MzT}> and, a good Dominant does know what the buttons are likely to be...
<thisonekneels> i agree that emotions get out of control..but isnt the point of a good Dom that he will be in control and take care of the sub even in adverary?
<MasterGuny> but there is a support system out there for subs that are part of the community..what support does the Dom get?
<thisonekneels> the same Guny
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ the sub support network, they usually are waiting to jump in your bed *lol*
<jen{SE}> ooops, should have bit my tongue on that one
<Kilted_One> as much or as little as his/her ego will allow him/her to accept from his/her freinds Guny
<thisonekneels> damn you mean i have to go through a big split to get that jen{SE}?
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<MasterGuny> I went almost a year of absoulte devistation...I never got a single bit of help or sympathy
<thisonekneels> did you ask for some?
<Cassity-phone> what would sympathy do
<drauma{MzT}> Dominant men are so stoical sometimes, maybe that facade has its downside Sir
<MasterGuny> that could be
<rhiannon{KO}> were You looking for help and sympathy?
<Sweet1`> did you have people to talk to Guny?
<MasterGuny> no
<MasterGuny> and could not even share it with my family
<star^dust{PoE}> Dommes are cold sometimes too... Its hard for them to seperate nuturing and help from loving sometimes
<rhiannon{KO}> then maybe that is why You didn't get any.
<jen{SE}> everyone handles a break up differently
<thisonekneels> well yo ucant sit back and say wow i wish people would come to me and be sympathetic...they probably didnt even know how hurt you were
<Cassity-phone> we are human first before the Domsub stuff.. breakups no matter how they are done can b hell to go thru.. friends and continued outside activities help ..but only time will heal
<thisonekneels> but that is a good point..do Doms feel acceptable to ask for that support?
<drauma{MzT}> sometimes you can find pity in a bar, gay bars are usually better for that than str8
<Kilted_One> no we dont jen...we all handle them poorly <EG>
<MasterGuny> well I did get asked since I was no longer with the sub was she available and would I forward he e-mail address
<jen{SE}> everyone has different needs, some want support, some want to go away and lick their wounds, some want to fight, etc... etc..
<jen{SE}> hugs to KO
<thisonekneels> oh gheesh Guny..real tackful guy
<MasterGuny> yes they were
<jen{SE}> yep, like i said, support network
<drauma{MzT}> compare that to the typical wash/drown/eat him outta your hair ex-partner bashing session
<jen{SE}> *lol*, if you pick a good friend to do that with no problem
<jen{SE}> cause the next day that same guy she was trying to wash/drown/eat, will be the love of her live again *lol*
<shadoe{S}> good friends tactfully listen and not make premature judgemental opinions
<Kilted_One> is there certain things that we should consider avoiding/doing during a break up to make them easier all round
<jen{SE}> besides each other???
<Sweet1`> lol
<Kilted_One> so that rules us Doms out then shadoe{S}?? <laughs>
<MasterGuny> the fact we attend parties and munchs with a reletively small comminuty can make it difficult as well
<jen{SE}> keeping feet on the ground, try and keep things in perspective
<drauma{MzT}> yes, dont throw things, its hard to clean up afterwards
* jen{SE} geesh it was only one cup
<Kilted_One> how is that Guny??
<Sweet1`> lol
<thisonekneels> i think the worst thing that we see all the time is bad mouthing each other
<MasterGuny> watching annX partner play at a party doing things only you two shared etc
<Sweet1`> you move on from that Guny
<jen{SE}> agrees with MasterGuny, that can be difficult
* Kilted_One nods at Guny understanding what he meant now
<MasterGuny> it could be like watching from the foot of the bed
<jen{SE}> but you get through it
<dana_foreveralways> jen that is sometimes easier said than done
<jen{SE}> *lol*, been there dana_foreveralways
<star^dust{PoE}> For me Ive asked my ex's to join me for dinner in a neutral location and bring a list of good, bad, what killed it, and wishes... so we can discuss it all as adults... then when we do see each other at play parties... they wont feel unfinished and I wont feel like Im invading or evading...
<jen{SE}> relationships are way easier to analyse when they are not yours
<MasterGuny> its one thing to part its onther to have it in your face at a public party..that rarely happens in a nilla relationship
<dana_foreveralways> think we all have... lol
<dana_foreveralways> what if there is no closure ?
<star^dust{PoE}> It makes it harder dana_foreveralways.... Our community isnt that large
<drauma{MzT}> well, our scene is a small world, play parties are something one simply cant avoid sometimes
<star^dust{PoE}> Your bound to run into each other somewhere
<star^dust{PoE}> Exactly sis
<Kilted_One> with all the parties that are around now it should be easy to simply go to another party that the ex isnt at
<rhiannon{KO}> true Guny, but if the submissive or the Dom cannot handle it, then they should step out of the "social" scene till they can acept it or handle it in a graceful respectful way. (IMO)
<star^dust{PoE}> Kilted_One how do you know where they are or arent going though.... if you dont have contact
<drauma{MzT}> yet, that isolation may not help, could harm...
<star^dust{PoE}> I woouldnt call them everytime I wanted to go to an event
<star^dust{PoE}> Avoidance isnt a solution
<rhiannon{KO}> but would it be more harmful to show up at an event and not be able to handle seeing the ex there?
<Kilted_One> agreed star^dust{PoE} it is not but it can help ease the pain as it can be done over time
<drauma{MzT}> you gotta come to grips with that somehow
<earl{MS}> somehow?
<Kilted_One> and if you go to a party and the ex is there you simply leave
<drauma{MzT}> why?
<shadoe{S}> y'know.. if i show up at a party and the ex is there.. too bad for the ex
<MasterGuny> easy to say rhiannon{KO} but what if it has been your community for 15 years?
<rhiannon{KO}> what would hurt more, avoidance for a short time, or being crushed, devistated, or worse by seing your EX there with someone else, doing what He use to do only to you?
<star^dust{PoE}> Kilted_One some of the events take much planning to get too, who is responsible to leave
<shadoe{S}> i'm there to enjoy myself.. if the ex has a problem with that.. then they should leave
<rhiannon{KO}> then it would be very hard Guny, i don't disagree with that at all, but what is more harmful? take the lesser of two evils..
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<drauma{MzT}> well, dats when you bat the eyelashes, and look for a freindly flogger to do you up nicely for 'maintenance'...
<rhiannon{KO}> very true shadoe{S}..
<Kilted_One> I was simply offering suggestions to Guny's comment about the pain of watching an ex star^dust{PoE}, I would not be the one leaving, I would be bull headed enough to sit through it
<shadoe{S}> i'll be d*mned if i'll live my life based on whether an ex shows up or not
<drauma{MzT}> communication is the cornerstone of our lifestyle, do it well and you get beter relatinoships, hopefully ones that dont brake up
<star^dust{PoE}> As would I Kilted_One
<star^dust{PoE}> I wasnt disagreeing, just asking your thoughts
<MasterGuny> Im not sure how I would handle it but knowing how vindictive they are they would be sure to inflict as much damage as possible
* star^dust{PoE} knows the flip side of this though... what if your ex was abusive...
<Kilted_One> no worries star^dust{PoE}, I was simply letting you know that they were suggestions not my own personal thoughts on how to handle the situation
<Sweet1`> and having a vindintive ex is not that easy to avoid/deal with Guny
<rhiannon{KO}> that is just not fair then Guny....
<drauma{MzT}> then you circle yourself with friends, big ones hopefully
<shadoe{S}> Guny.. if you can still hold your head up proudly about yourself.. your friends will stick by you.. nothing an ex says will ultimatetly damage that
<rhiannon{KO}> good one shadoe{S}...;) you are full of wise wisdom tonight girl..
<LrdThomas> Guny, just bring the cops in.
<drauma{MzT}> wb Sherri
<drauma{MzT}> oops
<Kilted_One> that is so true shadoe{S}, you have to have confidence in yourself and your actions
<MasterGuny> no but I question wether I could stay and watch it
<star^dust{PoE}> If badmouthing is a problem just remember in this lifestyle actions are what prove, words can be spoken by any fool.
<pretti_n_kink> no one could make you stay
<Prince_of_Evil{sd}> DRAGNET!!!!! W0000t
<MasterGuny> no but once you leave it is even harder to return
<dana_foreveralways> very hard...
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<shadoe{S}> you can always make the "staying" a personal goal.. a test of your own strength.. and you can make yourself turn a blind eye.. you are in a new life, and staying proves that you are embracing it..