January 23, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Start with Respect: finding your Dom/me/sub mate". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<krista-F> i know how you feel....how long have i been looking for one..
<krista-F> and now im scared to death
<krista-F> sorry
<krista-F> the bot has spoken
<kierana{DRFL}> lol krista...yes, both of us in about the same position...lol
<kierana{DRFL}> ok...sooo who wants to start the discussion?
* kierana{DRFL} sips tea and twiddles thumbs, respectfully
<Switcharoo4u> Who understands what is to be discussed in this topic? (I'm not trying to be smart)
<abitbent> yea it's a little shady to me too Switcharoo4u
<twisted> indeed... just the one line smacks of some kind of online dating thinger
<abitbent> if i can say one thing... when it comes to finding a compatible match... i think munches and local gatherings have been the most fruitful for me.
<kierana{DRFL}> well, i would think that if upon meeting someone special, they treat you with disrespect, wouldn't that be a turn off for any further involvement?
<twisted> certainly
<Kindred> Greetings
<shakti> for those newer to the lifestyle though, sometimes disrespect can be viewed as dominance, not everyone knows the difference
<twisted> it can take a while to learn the fine details
<krista-F> or the new person is so needy..they will accept anything
<abitbent> for sure shakti... although i think we need to all remember we're human first.. respect goes both ways
<shakti> absolutely
<twisted> sooo...
<Kindred> in order to start with respect, it is important that the parties place some definitions on things/wprds. For example, how does one define 'respect'?
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i think it should go back to the old days when respected was given all the time unless there was something that warrented oherwise
<Kindred> are you saying politness is respect, spirited_sassy{CP}?
<twisted> respect is earned, not given away. however there is certainly a base level of respect (higher for myself than many, it seems) that is given as a simple courtesy.
<spirited_sassy{CP}> not necessarily but politness would ba start
<shakti> respect to me goes hand in hand with trust
<twisted> ah... for me there's an enormous difference between respect and trust
<spirited_sassy{CP}> that is a politically correct thing
<Kindred> I am polite to aowards a certain indsividual but I hold him in little if any respect, so
<shakti> there is a basic human respect, but somehow, i dont believe that is really the point of the conversation
<dana^^> i think there are so many levels to respect and trust... its not so one dimensional... but good manners never hurt
<Kindred> damn fingers, can't type
<krista-F> we all have someone like that i think Kindred Sir
<Kindred> I agree with an earlier statement that respect must entail trust
<twisted> i would disagree
<shakti> i didnt mean that respect and trust were one in the same, just that the require the same element, time in knowing
<shakti> i wont respect someone as a Dom/me simply because they call themself such
<kierana{DRFL}> politeness and a well-placed, albeit, respectful word can keep a person at arms' length...but what about that person we meet, that we wish to get to know closer?
<spirited_sassy{CP}> no but can't you respect someone as a person first
<dana^^> exactly spirited_sassy{CP}
<twisted> can't you?
<spirited_sassy{CP}> of course i do
<twisted> misread... sorry
<Kindred> again I'm not hearing a definition of respect versus simple courtesy
<shakti> but that's what i said earlier, basic human respect.....but i dont think that's what we're talking about in finding your Dom/me sub etc
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i respect until wrong is done
<shadoe> so what does finding respect have to do with finding your mate?
<twisted> Kindred, i think the problem is that respect has a different definition for a lot of people
<Kindred> agreed twisted . For me I can be courteous, polite, etc but still not respect
<dana^^> would like to know too shadoe... if someone has no respect for me why would i consider them a potential mate?
<kierana{DRFL}> i think that if you show respect, for no other purpose than for the sake of respect, you might just impress the person you are interested in...specially in this lifestyle
<edana> if you do not respect someone you cannot have them for a mate be it Dominant or submissive
<abitbent> i think that can often be forgotten by the inexperienced kierana{DRFL}... but you are right.
<edana> not on an ongoing basis
<Kindred> kierana{DRFL} - how do you differentiate between courtesy and respect or is there any difference?
<dana^^> maybe by some abitbent but do you really think most are that naive?
<shareena> you can be courteous to someone but not necessarily value that person's opinion like you would someone you respect
* Kindred nods
<abitbent> for the most part dana^^... many i've met through our little group, at least the ones that are genuine and hang around for awhile, are usually very respectful. It's usually the fly by niters that lack politeness etc..
<Kindred> exactly
<dana^^> and yes i do agree that your behaviour has everything to do with finding friends or a Dominant...
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i agree abitbent
<dana^^> ahhh... think i have met a few... grins
<kierana{DRFL}> Kindred...ie...for me it is disrespectful not to use the honorific "Sir" when addressing You...but courtesy demands that i don't use it, since You once told me that You didn't want me to use it
<Kindred> I now grant you permission , kierana{DRFL}
<kierana{DRFL}> lol...Thank You, Sir...*grins*
<twisted> while for me, i won't use honorifics with people who happen to be a Dom(me) unless there is a kink dynamic to O/our relationsip
<abitbent> i'll oblige honorifics... but it's not a show if disrespect if i don't.
<spirited_sassy{CP}> when i grew up Sir and Madam were used our to politness
<shareena> is the consensus that most people do not show respect to others in this lifestyle? (sorry I came in late and trying to get the gist of this conversation)
<kierana{DRFL}> well, my use of honorifics doesn't even come from the lifestyle...was hounded into me growing up...everyone i don't know well deserves the respect of an honorific
<spirited_sassy{CP}> out of politness sorry
<twisted> agreed... i mean no disrespect... but i won't call a Domme i meet Mistress or Ma'am just because she's a Top
<Kindred> so if you apply some of this logic to your life outside of the lifestyle, are people saying that they respect an absolute asshole of a boss simply because they show politeness to him/her?
<twisted> hardly
<IncubusX> Greetings all.
<dana^^> same here spirited_sassy{CP} and i also find that slipping into a little more formal speech helps calm me.. silly but true...
<krista-F> hell no!!!!
<kierana{DRFL}> no way, Kindred...
<twisted> myself as well, dana... weird, isn't it?
<Kindred> but thus far all I have heard people saying is if they are polite they are respectful
<jen{SE}> much of it is pride in yourself, if someone else behaves like an ass does not mean i have to, i can be proud of my behaviour regardless
<spirited_sassy{CP}> just because i don't respect him/her as a boss does not mean i don't respect them as a human
<dana^^> nods with twisted...
<twisted> being polite and being respectful are two totally different things
* Kindred nods
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i agree jen{SE}
<krista-F> not me.......i can be polite. doesnt mean i like them let alone respect them
<shadoe> good point jen
<kierana{DRFL}> i will be polite, but, i don't hold the opinions of an asshole
<twisted> i can loathe someone totally and completely... but i will be polite unless provoked
<edana> respect like trust is earned
<dana^^> so true jen{SE}...
<twisted> precisely, edana
<Northbound> i'm afraid that when i loathe someone totally, they know it in not so polite terms
<kierana{DRFL}> lol Northbound
<dana^^> kinda thinks it would be silly to disrespect someone in public... not sure what that would accomplish
* Kindred knows NB has a long loathing list ;)
<twisted> i try not to provoke things, though... it only ends badly
<dana^^> but then i run from confrontations... lol
<Northbound> Kindred the loathing list is extremely short
<edana> but you can be polite to anyone for short periods?
<Kindred> I know NB - I know
<twisted> certainly
<shareena> respect for me is valuing that person's opinion, valuing myself, tolerant of other's opinions and differences
<Kindred> well put shareena - it is placing value
<kierana{DRFL}> agreed shareena
<dana^^> thinks what it boils down to is getting to know the person youre interested in...
<jen{SE}> ahh, it's a very fine line between opinionated (sp) and rude... when i don't agree with someone it is always a treat to figure out how to voice that opinion politely and respectfully *grins*, i don't allways suceed
<LordMorpheous> hello, am I too late to join in?
<spirited_sassy{CP}> not you jen{SE}?
<Kindred> I can acknowledge someone's humanity, be polite in their presence but place very little value on their presence, opinion,
<twisted> not at all, Morpheous
<shareena> i think that is very important dana^^. Getting to know the person, not getting to know the person based strictly in bdsm
<twisted> agreed, Kindred
<Johncin> true shareena
<dana^^> exactly shareena... im more interested in if we share common values and goals than what activities ... though those are nice to know too.. grins
* shareena nods.
<Kindred> the activities become the icing on the cake, whereas the shared values are the cake
<kierana{DRFL}> meeting someone at a munch just lets you start on a common ground, so to say, the rest is up to compatability in the rest of your lives
<shareena> we have to live outside our chosen lifestyle too and the day to day routine needs to be dealt with.
<shareena> i remember what Bernie said to us when we first met him. If you have no common ground and compatability the bdsm will burn bright, but then after a couple of years it will start to fizzle, then what do you have
<jen{SE}> the lifestyle does not change your core values
<twisted> burnt fingers
<shareena> lol...never thought of that response twisted. Wish i had of
<Kindred> agreed jen{SE}
<jen{SE}> if someone is just a casual play partner that is one thing, but if you are looking to make a life with that person, ya better like them..
<twisted> :)
<spirited_sassy{CP}> oh yeah jen{SE}
<twisted> i'm not even sure i could be a casual play partner of someone i couldn't get along well with
<shareena> i wonder how many look beyond the floggers and whips when they first decide to get involved with someone
<jen{SE}> i would guess very few shareena
<Kindred> very few I suspect and I was one of them too
<Kindred> I learned
<spirited_sassy{CP}> the hard way
<jen{SE}> how many look beyond the floggers and whips after getting to know someone *lol*
<twisted> that's the very reason my kink experience has been so limited... it's difficult for me to open up enough to trust a Domme enough with that kind of power
<Kindred> lol
<Kindred> good god jen{SE}! you mean you have morning breaTH?
<kierana{DRFL}> Wwe did, jen...just because so much of our lives has to be lived outside of the floggers...*sigh*...right from the start, that was made abundantly clear
<shareena> maybe we should be putting the bdsm part of our lives on a back burner until we see if the rest of it is going to work out. If so, then introduce it
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, yes Sir and worse
<Johncin> to me, floggers or whips come after you know someone
<shareena> me too Johncin
<sexyy2004> hi.. i am new to IRC... but have a few comments
<shareena> for me, they come after the established relationship
<jen{SE}> to me it has always come down to what i am in the lifestyle for, much more than floggers and whips, playing and scening
<Kindred> go ahead sexyy2004
<edana> if respect is important to start with and something happens to make you loose respect can it be regained ?
<twisted> in time, edana
<sexyy2004> shareena said about waiting to now someone, then introduce the bdsm ... right ?
<jen{SE}> what would happen to many relationships if you took away the play, would the respect, willingness to please and serve last?
<kierana{DRFL}> hopefully, jen....
<spirited_sassy{CP}> it would in my case
<shareena> if it doesn't jen{SE} then the question needs to be asked... is it just based on bdsm?
<Kindred> it's risky sexyy2004 but perhaps better to lay the foundation
<sexyy2004> don't you think that would be hard... i tried that in two relationships.. and it didn't work...
<jen{SE}> ahh, but bdsm is not just play
<shareena> wht didn't work sexyy2004?
<sexyy2004> i tired introducing my small bit, that i knew of bdsm.. and they didn't catch on...
* Kindred nods and nods and nods to jen{SE}
<edana> when I lost respect I asked to be released ...it was more important than the play to me
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i live this 24/7
<sexyy2004> it makes me realize that bdsm is " in " someone... ( my thoughts, anyhow )
<spirited_sassy{CP}> so i have to have more then play
<jen{SE}> and you do it very well spirited_sassy{CP}
<spirited_sassy{CP}> and so do you jen{SE}
<shareena> sexyy2004, these were people that you were not sure if they were in the lifestyle?
<twisted> in one form or another, sexyy2004. i agree it has to be there somewhere... even if it is buried deep
<sexyy2004> no shareena.. they were " before " i knew so much of bdsm...
<sexyy2004> it seems like eons ago, now, to be honest
* shareena nods. Difficult to introduce someone to this if they are not into it.
<jen{SE}> if you truly enjoy and like someone, if you have a need to serve and please, the respect comes so very easy, not much earning has to be done, you tend to respect those you like, so my motto is hang with the people i like, makes my life very easy
<Styx> hi all
* motoki agrees with jen
<shareena> i agree jen{SE}
<sexyy2004> yes, shareena... nodding head, agreeing
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> ?nick sassy{CP}
<abitbent> for me a relationship can't be solely based on bdsm... but bdsm has to be a part, for it to work.
<Kindred> so where you been in my life jen{SE}? ;)
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> ok
<jen{SE}> Never far away Kindred Sir
<Kindred> LOL!
<sassy{CP}> here here jen{SE}
<shareena> me too abitbent... i call that part the icing..
<elegantsarah> good idea, jen{SE}, it's a bitch
<jen{SE}> :-)
<abitbent> lol shareena... just not cake without the icing..
<edana> ~smiles~
<kierana{DRFL}> *sighs and slips away to reality once more*
<elegantsarah> in my last few months of actually looking, I find it easy to find play partners, much harder to find people I respect and like enough to want to serve
<krista-F> i have never found but one i wished to serve..in over six years
<jen{SE}> nods and agrees with elegantsarah, alway easy to get beat, the rest is the hard part
<Robert22> Hi. I wasn't spanked growing up but I feel like a failure and wish I was. Anyone believe in this discipline? Would I have been a better person had I been spanked? Please PM me if you can
<Kindred> My wife and I had been married for some 28 years when for a variety of reasons the respect left our relationship. We separated for two years and only then did we begin to redevelop our relationship, with an emphasis on dominant/submissive entering into our world. Only when we developed new trust, new respect did my collar for her bear any value and only then was it givern.
<spirited_sassy{CP}> agree elegantsarah
<shareena> i have found one that i choose to serve so i figured i had better marry him this year..lol
* jen{SE} whacks Robert22, not sure if he enjoyed it but it made me feel good *grins*
<shareena> that is fantastic Kindred!
<elegantsarah> for me, the vanilla aspects are at the very least equally important and maybe even moreso, in the end
<sexyy2004> Kindred.... you are both very lucky to have found that ... kudos to you both !
* jen{SE} has to go.. night and enjoy
<Kindred> we are aware of the luck but also the hard work - the open communication between dom/sub, the negotiating and defining and redefining
<sexyy2004> however, i imagine it took alot of hard work on both parts.... it's what i notice most in this " community ".. the open communication
<starla{TDM}> Kindred that is wonderful not many can do that
<sexyy2004> actually it's what appeals to me the most ... the communication !
<krista-F> i have been married for 29 yrs.....but my husband is not lifestyle...although he accepts and supports my lifestyle choices
<Kindred> I returned to live with her on the basis that it was first dominant/submissive and secondly husband/wife
<shareena> i find that communication was lacking in my vanilla relationship
<shareena> exactly Kindred
<Robert22> im leaving soon
<Robert22> but personally
* starla{TDM} is with her husband 99.9 percent of the time and many of nights we stay up late and talk in bed..have no idea what we can say to each other lol
<Robert22> I think you have to work out how important this is
<Kindred> so krista-F, do you interpret his accepting and supporting your being in the lifestyle as his respecting you?
<Robert22> I think for a lot of people they "need" the lifestyle too much
<Robert22> and they cast aside a loving partner becuase he doesn't or can't give her the lifestyle she wants
<edana> Robert some will not live without it
<Robert22> Anyone can live without BDSM
<Robert22> if they put their minds to it
* starla{TDM} wont live without it
<twisted> Not happily
<abitbent> Robert22 it's part of my sexual identiey
<edana> why would you want to ?
<Robert22> and its sad that some people lose out on a loving relationship
<Robert22> becuase their desires are too strong
<Robert22> I know this much
<starla{TDM}> a bdsm relationship is loving
<Robert22> if I met a great girl
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i am bdsm
<Robert22> and she was vanllia
<abitbent> so a gay man should marry a woman because he's missing out?
<Robert22> sexuality is different from sexual paraphillia
<twisted> if i wanted to give up just a huge part of my sexuality, i'd have joined the priesthood
<shadoe> abitbent - that wasn't a fair call.. that's not what Robert is saying
<abitbent> bdsm is about sexuality for me
<elegantsarah> it ends up gnawing away though, that pent up desire
<shadoe> and puleeze.. being a submissive is not only about sexuality
<Robert22> well its a need
<twisted> it shouldn't have to be, elegantsarah
<Robert22> some people believe they need BDSM and can't live without it
<shareena> i lived without bdsm in my life for years. That wasn't what ruined my relationship
<sexyy2004> ahhhh but Robert.. it is an integral part of the relationship.... why do i hear of others who came back to the lifestyle after vanilla and said they will not do it, again ?
<Robert22> some feel they can't live without drnk or drugs
<Robert22> but you can
<twisted> to deny our own urges is to deny the very thing that makes us human
<shareena> Lack of respect and communication did.
<Robert22> you can't deny your own urges totally
<Robert22> I agree
<Robert22> but to allow those urges to take over your life and spoil your relationships?
<krista-F> i interpret it as him loving me enough to let me be who i am Kindred Sir...his only concerns are for my happiness and my safety
<twisted> and for some, this is a HUGE part of themselves
<shadoe> abitbent.. whatcha going to do when you are old and infirm and can't have sex? bdsm and D/s goes way beyond the physical
<abitbent> i think it's important to understand that many people are here for different reasons and needs
<Kindred> so what are your points then regarding the topic, Robert22?
<abitbent> sex and sexuality are two different things shadoe
* starla{TDM} listens
<Robert22> My point is that I have found that people into BDSM esp subs are too demanding
<Robert22> and taht for some the need is too strong
<krista-F> my husbands only concerns are for my happiness and my safety Kindred Sir
<Robert22> but with some work it can become less of an issue
<Robert22> if people can learn to give and take
* starla{TDM} giggles
<Kindred> and what does that have to do ewith respect Robert22?
<abitbent> for some
<elegantsarah> it comes down to a choice though. My marriage ended not because I didn't get my submissive feelings acknowledged but when I became single, it was time to explore. At this point in my life, I don't want to compromise
<Robert22> and live a life that doesn't always revolve around BDSM
<motoki> Robert22, how do the submissives you've experienced come across as "too demanding"?
<Robert22> well.....
<abitbent> and for others it's an inherent need.. much as a gay person desires a relationship with the same sex
<krista-F> i do not disrespect him by acting in a manner that would be disrespectful to him
<Robert22> well I visit a spanking board
* Kindred smiles and nods to krista-F
<Robert22> and I found many subs complain about their nillia husbands not understand their needs
<Robert22> even though their husbsands will spank them as erotic foreplay
<Robert22> or even try ot punish them
<Robert22> its never enough for them
<Robert22> they require to constantly be held accountable
<Robert22> and punished if required
<twisted> i think that's a gross generalization, Robert.
<starla{TDM}> Robert22 i think you have no clue what its like to live in a BDSM relationship it encompasses trust and love and control and dominance and serving and pleasing and loving did i say and loving??? Its not about being spanked or fucked or floggeed its about respect for my Husband and our relationshiop
<Robert22> its as deamdning as raising a child
<shareena> Robert22, wouldn't it be more fair to say that *some* subs are demanding
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<abitbent> and some can live without it
* motoki demands that Robert22 not generalize that all submissives are demanding *g*
<krista-F> he does not understand Robert.but that does not make him a worthless husband and loving companion to me
<_dove> An online board isn't necessarily representative of anything
<Robert22> well some, I haven't met every sub in the world
<Robert22> thats good krista
<Robert22> but many women I have see end up going behind their husbands back
<Robert22> just to get what they want
<Kindred> Robert22 - what is your real experience in the lifestryle other than chat rooms and boards?
<starla{TDM}> oh please
<Robert22> Well I have a spanking fetish...im not into BDSM
<elegantsarah> as do many Doms, Robert22
<Robert22> for me spanking is always erotic..I don't want a D/s relationship
<Kindred> then i suggest you haven't a clue of what we are speaking of
<sexyy2004> << Listening intently... wondering where Roberts conversation is going
<Robert22> but on many spanking froms you end up having people who are into D/s
<starla{TDM}> thank you Kindred
<krista-F> i am not a liar Robert......to anyone.....ever
<Robert22> im just stating how I feel...
* twisted bites his tongue, to stave off the foul commentary
<Robert22> and I know you think I have no idea what im talking about
<Robert22> thi sis another things that bugs me
<Robert22> that people into D/s tend to preach to people who aren't
* starla{TDM} looks to twisted and grins
<Kindred> but you're not talking about bdsm or the topic so please Robert22
<Robert22> as if they are some religious zealout
<abitbent> painting any group with a broad bush is never productive
<sexyy2004> < thinks the biggest form of respect is for EACH person to have their own opinion and not to feel that " generalizing " is fair .. especially in a public forum *s*
<shadoe> actually he's made some very good points.. even as an 'outsider' looking in
<twisted> Robert, we're not preaching. You came into the middle of a scheduled discussion and have been making gross generalizations that, frankly, some here would find offensive... myself included.
* motoki agrees
<shadoe> AND he's been respectful while articulating them
* motoki agrees with shadoe, that is
<shakti> well, why would you come into a bdsm room when you know there is a organized Ds discussion going on if you have no interest in it...other than to stir people up and make comments towards things that not only dont interest you, but you havent really experienced?
<shadoe> we may not agree with all that he said.. but he said it nicely
<Robert22> oh im sorry I broke all your rules
<Kindred> no your not
<Robert22> I guess I should go and read all about the lifestyle before ever daring to comment again
<Robert22> its a chat room..I came to state my views
<Robert22> but ill leave now
<spirited_sassy{CP}> go to a munch
<abitbent> it all comes back to respect doesn't it?
<Robert22> dont take it all to seriously
<shareena> no Robert22. You have your opinion and we have ours.
<Kindred> your views are not on topic
<Kindred> your views are on spanking and your fetish and dissing
<motoki> this discussion is about respect and finding one's Dominant/submissive/mate - so that seems to be a catch-all for any slant including spanking fetishes - seems appropropriate to me
<shadoe> yes well.. but he expressed his views.. and not abusively .. and how much respect did he get?
<Robert22> where does it say you must be into BDSM to visit this room?
<dana^^> smiles softly and wishes Eeveryone well... sweet dreams...
<abitbent> i only pointed out shadoe.. that the brush he painted me with was too broad and assuming
* motoki looks at her spelling of appropriate, which it was not
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<shadoe> and you may be right.. but at no point was he obnoxious..