January 23 2000 EhBC Online Discussion
<Kilted_One> Discussion in progress at 9:00 till 10:00PM Topic.......Gorean lifestyle.....please refrain from Walton style greetings during the discussion. Respect will be required at all times. Avoid personal attacks, offenders will be kicked without warning.
<TechnoMage`> Hi A/all! (Almost late - as usual...)
<Galadan> wb abi
* `zee{LQ} smiles up to her Master as He arrives
<whispurr{SL}> greetings to the Masters..hello Sirs and to any Mistresses that might be present...
<vixen{KO}> hiya abi
<Kilted_One> that is the auto msg that I ahve put up for all
<whispurr{SL}> hello to the lovely sisters as well...soft smile
<katiiias> ?
<vixen{KO}> hope that was the right boot
<SirLancelot`> night A/all
<vixen{KO}> nice to see you whispurr{SL}
* whispurr{SL} slips her lips to the Masters boot, a soft lick and gentle kiss to the worked leather and a sigh to her heart feeling the love for Him
<Kilted_One> OK official start of discussions anyone not wanting their nicks to show in the logs that are posted pls leave or change them now
* sweetslave{AF} waves to ti`mara
* SirLion^w smiles
<Kilted_One> would like to request that personal attacks be avoided and that respect for all is maintained
* `zee{LQ} nods to KO Sir
<elbowfetish> My introduction to GOR was the TUCHUKS tribe in the SCA.
<Kilted_One> tonight we will be discussion gorean lifestyle....that is KO's and vixen's take on gorean lifestyle with consent
<Kilted_One> is there anything that anyone would like explained before we wade right in??
<elbowfetish> How closely do people follow the books?
<ti`mara> depends on the person
<Kilted_One> we follow them very loosly as most of the BDSM content is non consentual
<bottoms_up{RD}> do people who practice Gor in real life.. play in the Gor channels on chats? is the Gor similar in both?
<vixen{KO}> precisely ti`mara.....everyone interprets Normans words and puts their own spin on it to work for their lifestyel
<Kilted_One> we do like a lot of the ritual stuff and of course the chains
* sweetslave{AF} smiles
<vixen{KO}> i don't do IRC Gor in the LEAST!!!!!
<ti`mara> i know some real life Goreans and i know ppl who are cyber Gor
<vixen{KO}> IRC Gor is so far from r/l Gor
<vixen{KO}> at least the way W/we do it
<SirLion^w> Wups, splain chains? If you would?
<lil^bear`> IRC gor is a fantasy..
<sweetslave{AF}> irc gor would be next to impossible to emmulate
<ti`mara> yep thanks lil
<Kilted_One> I searched for months for a gor room thatI could chat in but ended up making my own as most of them had disney goreans i nthem
<vixen{KO}> yes....very hard to accomplish virtual Gor to real life
<`zee{LQ}> even within irc GOR there is much play with the lifeway..some are strict GOR and others have adapted some flexibility
* `zee{LQ} smiles at the Disney phrase
<elbowfetish> The GOReans here are Maledom/femsub only right?
* Kilted_One looks towards Lion.....several references to chains in the books.....the slave beeing chained to the bed...the sirik for working and dancing in
<lil^bear`> some of the IRC gor is more like role playing then anything else
<ti`mara> irc Gor is like a theater with dancing and serving
<vixen{KO}> unfortunately, the flexibility is not prevalent enough `zee
<`zee{LQ}> Ko Sir would You sum up the philosopy that You practice in respects to GOR?
<PlsrMstr> well I can tell my opinion won't be wellcomed here. ttyl
<whispurr{SL}> is there not a difference in real life behaviour as apposed to behaviour on irc anyway, whether it be irc or not?
<`zee{LQ}> agreed vixen{KO} as i have been banned from a few channels for nothing!
<Kilted_One> gor to me is a fork in the BDSM path....it has to be consentual.......
* vixen{KO} frowns
<whispurr{SL}> scuse this one...whether it be gorean or not...smile
<lil^bear`> whats BDSM stand for?
<sweetslave{AF}> but, say what you will about serves and dancing...for me...it was an excellent way for me to delve into myself, my feelings, to really feel my body as i wrote and tried to move...an important step for me years ago
* `slutkat` chuckles
<SirLion^w> I need ceremony, so the serves have much merit
<`zee{LQ}> agree whispurr{SL}.. as in real time and on line time..all is different though you can learn for it as well
<`zee{LQ}> i enjoy ceremony and rituals as well
<Kilted_One> Bondage Dicipline Sado Masochism
* whispurr{SL} smiles and nods to zee...
<lil^bear`> ok Sir KO..then it that not focused in the bedroom..is Gor more a fork in the road of D/s..there is a difference between BDSM,D/s and Gor...
<elbowfetish> While we're explaining terms, what GOR terminology do pple use?
* shoshin{MMT}p listening.. has studies gorean serves & dances & does variations on them online as i find them to be an example of grace, beauty & artistry
<bottoms_up{RD}> how do you take the non-consentual parts out of the book Gor? its mostly based on they dont have any choice isnt it? *confused look*
<vixen{KO}> D/s isn't just in the bedroom
<whispurr{SL}> oh most assuredly shoshin..nod
* lil^bear` sees no dominant or submission in BDSM...
<vixen{KO}> nor is Gor
<lil^bear`> true viuxen that is my point
<lil^bear`> but BDSM is mainly in the bedroom
* whispurr{SL} looks softly to vixen..but perhaps for some it is just in the bedroom no?
<LrdTZ> since when lil bear.
<Kilted_One> but D/s is but a part of BDSM as well, simply another fork and yes gor to me is very close to a D/s relationship....just a specific flavour is all
<ti`mara> i have never had bdsm in my bedroom
<vixen{KO}> no, BDSM can and is taken outta the bedroom by many people.
<SirLion^w> Poor ti`mara
* SirLion^w smiles
<elbowfetish> I would never *live* GOR, just play it, physical or cyber.
<`lucius> you could still fantasize that it is non consentual...bottoms
<vixen{KO}> yes, whispurr{SL}....it is that for many people.
<`lucius> or...couldn't you?
<ti`mara> in time SirLion^w in time
<Life_Quester> lil^bear`...I take exception to the limitation of the bedroom.
* `abi has it all over the house ...it's like dust...gets into everything
<SirLion^w> hehehehe
* `candie` giggles
<Kilted_One> sure that is not Dukey you are talking about abigaille??
* vixen{KO} had to wipe down the counter in the kitchen just this afternoon, abi
<whispurr{SL}> oh of course vixen..but more this one finds that so many instances a sub is merely submissive in the bedroom and a very powerful one in her daily life and in the kitchen..grin
<lil^bear`> well thats just my opinion
<vixen{KO}> what do you mean, Life_Quester?
<SirLion^w> So the ceremony of Gor can applky then
<SirLion^w> apply
* shoshin{MMT}p if given the chance would take it wherever i could get it
<ti`mara> if you want my honest opion in rl the only differance between r/l Gor and bdsm is slave and subbie
* submale_burl nods
<vixen{KO}> oy.....the kitchen can be a very black/white area for a kettle slave indeed, whispurr{SL}
<SirLion^w> No ti`mara, my slave and I are moslty bdsm
<Kilted_One> we apply a lot of the rituals Lion, vixen wears a gorean ko_lar 24/7...turian style
* vixen{KO} has had to learn MANY lessons in the kitchen, right Master?
* bottoms_up{RD} read Gor alot and still has a hard time putting it to real life.. i must be missing something *sigh*
<Life_Quester> vixen{KO}...if the philosophy of D/s ...and BDSM....is just in the bedroom....the discipline afforded....then there is something being lost that should not be.
<lil^bear`> explain bdsm..so all you do is bondage discipline sadism and machoist???
<lil^bear`> not the philosophy of D/s..that is beyond the bedroom
<lil^bear`> as is Gor
<^^blush^^> i agree bear!
<SirLion^w> Tis the underlying attitude, the gift of her submission to me, though yes, some sadistic uerges rcreep in
<Life_Quester> I can see `zee literally bound to a chair in the school's library....*smile*
<dianna^> greetings A/all
<elbowfetish> Is it tied to historical roleplay? No toys with batteries?
<Kilted_One> I view D/s as only one facet of BDSM lil bear...and we live that lifestyle in a gorean manner
* `zee{LQ} grins
* bottoms_up{RD} will brb..laundry
<submale_burl> so the gor and D/s are the same in most way ?
* lil^bear` views BDSM and D/s..Gor as two totally differnetn faucets..one can have a D/s relationship without being tied and gaged and whipped and flogged..
<submale_burl> I agree with that lill^bear
<Kilted_One> I would agree with that submale_burl....they have differences but a lot of commonality too
<elbowfetish> I see D/S and BDSM in the books
<SirLion^w> Agreed lil^bear`
<DukeDom> well maybe ... but why would you want to <g>
<whispurr{SL}> Master is not Gorean, but He delights in cerimony and formalities..and He expects more than most other Masters who are not Goarean require...so the paralell to Gor in that light has been one filled with creative mind thinking and rituals who constantly remind this one of her place and her celebration of who she is...
<SirLion^w> But both use many similar philosohhpy as well
<submale_burl> then its not a game to be played with
<OT> I agree with lil^bear if one wishes that coul be their D/S
<vixen{KO}> hardline D/s and hardline Goreans have many similarities, but ther is a big difference when it comes to consistencies...
* whispurr{SL} shutters at her spelling
<submale_burl> I have studdy gor now for many months anh read 7 of 24 books and find that gor is the far side of D/s
<vixen{KO}> the consistencies start with interpretation of the lifestyle and the different kinks people enjoy
<lil^bear`> i think...Gor and D/s are clsoely linked
<Kilted_One> sure it can be used as a game to be played with several disney goreans are playing every night...but it can also be a lifestyle if one choses to do so and take it serious
<vixen{KO}> farside....good description submale_burl
<elbowfetish> The first 6 books are the best to follow. IMO
<ti`mara> i have been going into Gor for almost two years have studied 19 out of 27 books
* SirLion^w read two
* lil^bear` has read about 15 of the books
<elbowfetish> Please don't talk like the books are written ;-)
<submale_burl> I get upset when its called a game
<SirLion^w> The basics are covered real quick
<Kilted_One> I would agree with you lil^bear`, gor is a form of D/s relationship
<elbowfetish> It could be a game for some and not for others. No need for upset.
<LrdTZ> has read 8 and have 11 more in route by cp
<lil^bear`> if it is a game..then it is not gor..their is consistency in Gor
<Kilted_One> I would class the relationship that vixen and I have as a gorean D/s relationship
<submale_burl> sorry to me its not a game you play its a lifestyle .... I respect the gor ways but know they are not for me
<ti`mara> it is really hard to have a Gorean 24/7 relationship when you have children involved though
<SirLion^w> The point in Gor was to amplify the inate need of some people to be submissive, and to be proud of it
<lil^bear`> being tied and flogged is "play" is that not what we all call it..living Gor..is not "play" living D/s is not "play"
<elbowfetish> Why, there are kids on GOR. :-)
<Kilted_One> many irc goreans would have troulbe with your comment lil^bear`....they role play every night and are very consistant
<`zee{LQ}> as is D/s ti`mara
<Life_Quester> a sumbissive...if with the right Master....should be proud by definition SirLion^w.
* SirLion^w nods
<SirLion^w> So this works, real time, irc, D/s, and Gor
* SirLion^w nods
<lil^bear`> but are they living it real life?
* vixen{KO} concurs with Life_Quester....and proudly lives it
<lil^bear`> they cant..you cant
<LrdTZ> I find the r/t and the cyber don't match the books. ppl make up there own rules.
<SirLion^w> whispurr and I try to, within our circumstance
* whispurr{SL} feels the need to understand and realize that though only on irc for some Goreans or others as well, they still are feeling it with T/their heart and thinking it in T/their mind...should be understood as still sincere...
<lil^bear`> how can you kill a larl real life?
<lil^bear`> or ride a tarn
<Wolfe^en> do most into r/l gor try to recreate all of it? or just take elements they particularly enjoy?
<lil^bear`> or sell a person
* Kilted_One would agree that children do make it more difficult to explain the chains and the collars and the silks too
* sweetslave{AF} agrees with whispurr
<katiias> silk is nice
<lil^bear`> silk is very nice
* lil^bear` grins
* vixen{KO} thinks that r/l is separate from the books is separate from cyber
<lil^bear`> flannel is better tho
<LrdTZ> a larl could be a large panther and that can be killed. a tarn well don't know of any earth bird that men can fly.
<alora{AF}> silk is hot and sweaty :\
<SirLion^w> I don't think the trappings matter, so much as the attitude
* katiias thinks it is maybe the *concept*...not the specifics...
<bottoms_up{RD}> oh ohhh.. thought of something in the laundry room ;)
<vixen{KO}> Wolfe^en....reality dictates differently, of course
* elbowfetish thinks ceremony and trappings both matter
<|Karen> people have been sold, consensually, in the Kink community..
<vixen{KO}> reality and the law
<SirLion^w> Which law?
<submale_burl> agrees wit you kitiias
<shoshin{MMT}p> i guess i see things very simplified... if for the participants whatever happens within the relationship between them is consensual, then it is not a topic for debate.. it is what is right for them.. Gorean, D/s, vanilla.. popeye & Olive oil.. no matter..
<Kilted_One> we dont try to Wolfe, we only use the consentual portions and then I'm sure only the potions that mean something to us
* whispurr{SL} giggles and nods to shoshin....
<Wolfe^en> i understand
<Wolfe^en> thanks
<vixen{KO}> silk if the Priest Kings gift to slave to make them feel naked while clothed
<elbowfetish> You can consent to non-consent, no safewords...
<LrdTZ> there is not consensualality in Gor. not the books and most of the channels follw that.
* katiias thought the consensuality of it is that you both agree to do it
<vixen{KO}> earth law dictates that much of what happens in the Gor books and also in many cyber channels is illegal
<SirLion^w> Do like a contract before hand, willingly signed?
<bottoms_up{RD}> do you use the trappings of Gor, the servings, the dress, etc because you like it.. like people do school girl, pony play, etc? but you dont live the full lifestyle Gor which includes non consentual stuff, hamstrings cut, death, etc.. in the same ways you dont have sex with a real school girl?
<Kilted_One> that is correct LT, hence the name of my channel as #gorlite, all the gor as well as consentuality
<LrdTZ> and that I agree with.
* SirLion^w likes the sound of it
<vixen{KO}> true LrdTZ....that's why r/l gor has to be different
<Kilted_One> yes to all of that bottoms_up{RD}
<LrdTZ> as is most D/s relationships different for each couple.
<vixen{KO}> yes, bottoms_up{RD}
<OT> One of the majot problem I have with Gor it is based on cast system anf hirarchy, which is totaly unaccabtable to me
<submale_burl> as one who has served as a kajiurs I find it very sexual and powerful to me
<Kilted_One> dont go to England then OT
<vixen{KO}> yes to the trappings and no to the lethal stuff
<Wolfe^en> so it is like re-enacting the civil war or the pageantry of kings, knights & damsels in distress
* Kilted_One laughs at vixen
<|Karen> OT, if hierarchy is a problem for you, how do explain your interest in D/s?
<bottoms_up{RD}> are there many real life Gor people who say they live the lifestyle.. and are adamant they follow it as it is written?
<lil^bear`> as well as they can bottoms
<Kilted_One> one way to put it Wolfe ;)
<OT> Yes I won't till england becomes a rebublic of EU LOL
<SirLion^w> I've heard of entire communities, maybe bikers?
* SirLion^w smiles
* whispurr{SL} feels that too many are taking this too literally..soft smile
<Kilted_One> in the US there are plenty of r/l
<Kilted_One> that take it more seriously that we do (vixen and I)
<bottoms_up{RD}> but its only role playing bear, right.. like the school girl/pony games... no one in the last two are sensitive and say we are living as real horses, etc
* lil^bear` smiles at Sir KO they have a town..called Ar i think
<vixen{KO}> it is very much a Man's world, Wolfe^en.....i have heard a saying...."Welcome to Gor....the Testosterzone"
* submale_burl giggles
* sweetslave{AF} laughs
<Wolfe^en> I can understand that
<OT> D/S is to me more consensaul, and Dom or Master is empowered by hie/her sub
<Wolfe^en> it is visual
<SirLion^w> The whole thing stillstems from Mastery or submmission aplied to the realtionship
<Wolfe^en> most men require that
* |Karen disagrees
<Kilted_One> and things have changed in the last couple of years in IRC too.....more Mistresses are allowed to be in channel that ever before
<whispurr{SL}> Each Master has His own degree of whatever He is wanting and needing...if it is Gorean that Master still arrives at His own involvement with it...
<|Karen> Empowerment is -power from within the self-
<SirLion^w> I agree, the slave drives the power exchange i her gifting the submission
<SirLion^w> I see Mistress/Master as dominant, and use the term to mean both
<|Karen> Empowerment is -not- powered by consent from without the self
<elbowfetish> Where does a Mistress fit in GOR?
<vixen{KO}> true whispurr{SL}....as any facet of O/our lifestyles....every participant gets out of it what works for them
* SirLion^w smiles
<Kilted_One> and FW are also tolerated more too....once was a time when a female without a ko_lar entering a channel would be forcefully ko_lared or she would have to leave
* bottoms_up{RD} maybe has the wrong idea of r/l Gor... i thought people were all up in the air about how they live the Gor lifestyle and follow it ... instead of just enjoying the fun of Gor
<SirLion^w> Can't rule over an empty empire
<vixen{KO}> bottoms_up{RD}.....do i look like i don't have fun with my lifestyle?
<Kilted_One> there are Mistresses in the books elbowfetish...and they have male slaves "kajarus"
<OT> true Karen
<Wolfe^en> with all due respect, it sounds like dungeons & dragons
* SirLion^w nods
<SirLion^w> Again, tis the spirit if not the letter
<bottoms_up{RD}> no vixen.. you and KO take the fun of Gor and use it like people in D/s use pony play/age play etc... but i misunderstood and thought some Gor people claimed to LIVE Gor.. all of it, etc
<Kilted_One> no offence taken Wolfe, and you maybe right in a strange sort of way
<|Karen> I think people get upset at Gor, bottoms, because the books and the irc of it, are largely pathetically written male chauvinism
<vixen{KO}> any/all of O/our lifestyles are just what you want to see them as....do with them what you will, Wolfe^en
<Wolfe^en> it was not meant as a shot vixen{KO}
* bottoms_up{RD} smiles at Karen ;)
<vixen{KO}> oh, they do bottoms_up{RD}.....but then a few of them tend to squeak when they walk too....
* vixen{KO} ducks
<SirLion^w> Some feel that man is a nautral to lead, the Bible and so forth, is that a role?
<|Karen> and overlook the real beauty in some of the rituals...
<Wolfe^en> I'm trying to understand it
<OT> LOL
<bottoms_up{RD}> so how do KO and vixen feel about the Gor lifestylers that claim to live it as it is written?
<vixen{KO}> not at all a shot, Wolf....apologies if that's how You took it.
<shoshin{MMT}p> vixen... i had always thought i couldn't go into Gor, being a mouthy sub with an impudent streak i could see me losing my head within the first 5 minuts.. but you are kajira & i know you *g* so maybe i have to rethink my concept of kajira
<Kilted_One> hard to take them serious bottoms_up{RD}.....we have many a debate about that with them in channel
<vixen{KO}> oy....the list is long bottoms_up{RD}.....the honour, the rituals (that we maintain), the respect for position in relationship, the appreciation for the roles that we feel....and so much more.
<bottoms_up{RD}> thank you *Smiles*
<SirLion^w> I never considered my self as a leader, until I realized , Some one had to, and it was a stretch to adopt, but now a given
<SirLion^w> How the leading is done can take all manner of flavors
<|Karen> KO, vixen...how do you feel about TPE, by comparison to Gor as you practise it?
* vixen{KO} would loose her head in the first 30 seconds in many Gor rooms, shoshin{MMT}p....which is why i stick to r/l and reading & interpretting the books the way that Master & i feel works for U/us
<Kilted_One> we practice a TPE gorean relationship, that is what it is....until the kid gets in the way :)
* bottoms_up{RD} giggles.. wow you would last 30 seconds? i think they would see me and strike me down as i entered ;)
<shoshin{MMT}p> i like the dances because i can relate to them from my experience as a r/t stripper in my 20s & as a recreational belly dancer recently
<SirLion^w> And in the streets, in public? How then?
* SirLion^w smiles
<whispurr{SL}> it is self expression shoshin..and how lovely...
<vixen{KO}> i can feel the dances too....but the way cyber Gor represents all the slaves as the ultimate perfect woman is ridiculous....
* SirLion^w shudders to think of trying to drag the whisp o perv around with a chain
* shoshin{MMT}p loves being draged about by a chain
<Kilted_One> that is the main difference between the books and r/l....r/l is a consentual TPE relationship...the books or IRC gor is a non consentual or disney relationship
<|Karen> vixen, I notice that you don't speak in the third person. may I ask why you two have chosen to not use that part of Gor tradition?
<whispurr{SL}> but lovely vixen, for some it is vital and not ridiculous
<vixen{KO}> oh, if do speak sometimes in the third person, Karen....but even in the books the gurls don't speak very often in such a fashion
* Kilted_One smiles and looks at vixen regarding Karen's ??
<vixen{KO}> third person is mostly spoken again in cyber
<elbowfetish> What about the polyamoury from GOR?
<Kilted_One> she does really when she wants something
* SirLion^w laughs
<SirLion^w> Don't they all
* SirLion^w smiles
* vixen{KO} blushes
<shoshin{MMT}p> like T/they or U/us in BDSM cyber rooms
<Kilted_One> or if we are in a serious mode discussion
* |Karen smiles 'thank you, I didn't know that that was mostly an IRC Gor thing'
<vixen{KO}> np Karen....many people don't realize that.
<SirLion^w> I appreciate the flow of it and ask ewhispurr to speak with it often as she can
<Kilted_One> what about it elbowfetish??
<SirLion^w> We need poetry in thids hard world
* whispurr{SL} smiles softly to Him
* shoshin{MMT}p agreeing with SirLoin
* Kilted_One thinks that there maybe a romatic trying to get out of Lion;)
<vixen{KO}> elbowfetish....as far as anything to do with my body....that is up to Master....i/it is His property....
<whispurr{SL}> and a fine cut He is shochin...giggle
<elbowfetish> Do we have GORean swingers here, or closed pairs?
<SkyDom> I knew something was missing from my life....t's poetry.....
<submale_burl> do you have a gor room on IRC.. I have went o alot maybe i have gone to yours
<whispurr{SL}> shoshin...smile
<SirLion^w> Try not to mis steak the nick shoshin{MMT}p
* SirLion^w smiles
<shoshin{MMT}p> oops... SirLion
* SirLion^w smiles gently
<Q_Master> it's very difficult to incorporate a true GOR lifestyle and while dealing with day to day reality. It's not as difficult to maintain a level of maintain a BDSM lifestyle.
* Kilted_One owns #gorlite
* shoshin{MMT}p blushing & hiding in a corner
* submale_burl never been there KO
<vixen{KO}> true Q_Master.....it's all a challenge...just some of it's harder to attain than others
* submale_burl where??please
<Kilted_One> the gorean lifestyle allows a Master or a Misress to own as many slaves as they can afford to keep
* SirLion^w shudders at the thought of even two high maintenace slaves with soft hearts
* SirLion^w grins
<`zee{LQ}> i feel that the parts that are the most important to a relationship there is always a way to find opportunities to express them within the day to day context
<vixen{KO}> agreed `zee{LQ}....
<Kilted_One> on Dalnet submale_burl
<lil^bear`> grr back..kids
* submale_burl nods thank you
<`zee{LQ}> as in D/s.. honorifics and rituals have levels that are important to the T/two..GOR is the same
* vixen{KO} is wondering if in the melee of all these people in channel if anyone's question may have been missed?
* Kilted_One will be there after the discussion is ended submale_burl....too busy in here to look after it during this discussion...not fair on either channel
<SirLion^w> Hmm, did you get to the part about bondage toys?
* SirLion^w smiles
<Life_Quester> honorifics, My sweet `zee....are the manifestation of what is "real"....not form over substance.
<Kilted_One> good point zee....honour is very important...especially to me
* whispurr{SL} has a need to speak with her heart here...
<vixen{KO}> true `zee{LQ}.....i know some practitioners of D/s that are more strict than O/our Gor and other that are vastly dishwater in comparison
* submale_burl nods
* vixen{KO} *PERKS* toys? W/we have some AMAZING toyz!!!!
* shoshin{MMT}p nodding Wind Steel & Honor - but above all Honor
<vixen{KO}> speak whispurr{SL}, sis....please by all means.
<Kilted_One> there are several really elabourate bondage "toys" described in the books Lion
<SirLion^w> Agreed again, its the respect, and lots of lube
* SirLion^w smiles
<lil^bear`> shoshin{MMT}p honour is something that should be practiced by all regardless of what kind of a relationship they in..too bad ppl dont do it more often...:)
<vixen{KO}> ;)
<`zee{LQ}> agreed Master..though the honorifics for some slaves are a substance in their own rights
* sweetslave{AF} agrees with lil bear
<OT> I agrere with you lil^bear
<shoshin{MMT}p> lil bear.. true.. is something i try to practice to the best of my ability
* SirLion^w bets whisp is wrting a small book
* vixen{KO} really would love to get back and talk about toys....but then a gurl is fairly transparent at times...
* SirLion^w smiles gently
<Kilted_One> in its simplest form honour can be described as doing unto others as you would have then do unto you....
<shoshin{MMT}p> i learned the "Wind, Steel & Honor" greeting from one of the wisest & most wonderful Men i have ever met online.. He has been a Friend & Brother from my first faltering steps
* whispurr{SL} came to irc never experiencing r/l ...a slave wore His collar with all the sincerety and realness that she had..this one honoured Him and served Him and truly loved Him without ever meeting Him in real life..it just cant ever be thought of as less or not as real..when W/we met it was far more intense and most wonderful..when W/we are on irc this one tries to be slave as best she can in distance..
<SirLion^w> And you do indeed whispur mine
<vixen{KO}> highly respectful indeed, whispurr{SL}....and as it should be, in my books.
* SirLion^w tries not to look too proud
<`zee{LQ}> whispurr{SL} i agree wholeheartedly that on line can and is so enriching...one can grow and learn vast amounts as i have.. the riches can be expanded on the journeys in real time as well
<whispurr{SL}> it is truly wonderful to feel this on irc...and when W/we meet it deepens O/our relationship..the point being felt the need to defend all those who cannot live this real life..soft smile...thank Y/you for allowing this one to blab
<shoshin{MMT}p> nicely spoken whispurr *s*
* SirLion^w refrains from giving her a noogi cause he loves her so damned much, and smiles instead
* lil^bear` smiles at whispurr{SL}
* Kilted_One smiles at the wholeness and love in whispurr{SL} words....ask vixen how long we were irc only?? before r/l.....there is a differnce here....you can have an irc relationship that is a real long distance relationship...and you can have an irc relationship that is simply a make believe scening
<`zee{LQ}> KO Sir may i ask if You think of yourself as a Gorean Master?
<SirLion^w> We meet as often as we can, just to prove we Are real to each other, lest I decide she really IS a dream
<`zee{LQ}> most respectfully Sir
* vixen{KO} pinches whispurr{SL}
* Kilted_One smiles at zee.....of course I do zee
<SirLion^w> hehehehe
* whispurr{SL} grins softly to vixen...hehe
<SirLion^w> That's My job vixen
* SirLion^w grins
<vixen{KO}> k, Sir
* vixen{KO} couldn't resist
<SirLion^w> hehehehe
* `zee{LQ} has a dear sister friend who went to Florida to have a trial period living the true Gorean slave life to a Master and Mistress..it was a difficult transition for her
<SirLion^w> Nor I
* `zee{LQ} smiles back to KO already knowing that answer before she asked
<SirLion^w> Vanilla to Gor? I should think so
<vixen{KO}> if it was very strict, `zee{LQ}, it would be difficult for many people to deal with.
<Kilted_One> there are many version of living gor.....most try and emulate the books to close and have little hope of success
<`zee{LQ}> no SirLion^w Sir.she had been a slave on irc for 2 years before taking the step to real time
<SirLion^w> Ah, still, I imagine a patient Master and training to new levels would ease things
<lil^bear`> strict gor..doesnt work you lose your identity in it
<`zee{LQ}> it was vixen{KO}..she was but a slave in the truest sense..more of a maid and they explained 80% of her earnings go to them..20% go to a pension for her.. all of her needs would be dealt with as they saw fit
<Kilted_One> some would say that their true identity is enhanced by it lil^bear`
<SirLion^w> Tsk, dang, and I LIKE her identity
<vixen{KO}> can be true more often than not, lil^bear`....but then that is what some want out of all this
* SirLion^w smiles at lil^bear`
<Kilted_One> however it would depend on the level of strickness
<`zee{LQ}> as all things depend on the level it is practiced
* SirLion^w nods
<Kilted_One> well only a few mins of formal discussion left, any closing questions??
<lil^bear`> I live with a strict gor Master..he was not enhancing my identity he was destroying it...he tried to live Gor by the books..to me..after that experience...living Gor "by the books" as much as possible is trying to incorporate fantasy and real life..and it doesnt work...
<SirLion^w> Best might be to cobble the parts out of all of them and adopt them as yours
<SirLion^w> VEry personal
<vixen{KO}> you'd like our Gor a bit more, then, lil^bear`....i would guess
<`zee{LQ}> as it would also if Y/you lived D/s in the purest sense 24/7 lil^bear`
* Kilted_One thinks that the "Master" was simply emulating the books of non consentual gor instead of reaching for the slave within you lil^bear`
* vixen{KO} smiles warmly at her Master....for His wisdom
<lil^bear`> just my own opinion..
<SirLion^w> Agreed Sir, he could have made her stronger
<`zee{LQ}> agree KO Sir.. very well said
<SirLion^w> And likely he'd have grown too
<`zee{LQ}> exactly SirLion^w Sir...growth is a depth for T/two not just one
<SirLion^w> I find I try to be more for my lady, just out of my love for her
<Kilted_One> most certainly, Lion, I have absolutely no doubt that my life has grown with vixen's slavery
<Trouble22> got to go home now..bye for now
* vixen{KO} has never been more happy and as free to be a complete woman as she is being slave to KO
* SirLion^w smiles
<SirLion^w> Gald for you then vixen
* `zee{LQ} smiles to her sister vixen{KO} remembering her silks and chains
<SirLion^w> glad
<`zee{LQ}> never been a more stronger woman within the slavebelly eh sis?
* vixen{KO} nods and smiles warmly
* Kilted_One will officially end the discussion now but it can continue as long as anyone wants to discuss it
* `zee{LQ} feels her own belly burn
<lil^bear`> i have grown more in the past year..then what i have ever grown...become stronger...within myself..and proud of it..one thing i have learned whether your in a vanilla relations D/s or Gor..that if your not comfortable with who you are, and strive to meet your own goals..then everything you enter into is destine for failure...this lifestlye doiesnt bring you happiness..you have to bring yourself happiness..all this lifestlye does is enhance it
* shoshin{MMT}p believes i could no more live the "Old Guard" D/s relationship than the by the book Gor life.. prefering to meet One Who will taker her into His world & build a life T/they can B/both live in trust & love
<whispurr{SL}> tis so lovely for the more slave one becomes this one feels the more freer she is....
<`zee{LQ}> very well put lil^bear`...very well
<sweetslave{AF}> very true whispurr
* `zee{LQ} smiles to whispurr{SL} knowing of where she speaks
<Kilted_One> well put lil^bear` and there is no doubt that you have a strong will
<whispurr{SL}> wise words lil bear...smile
* submale_burl nods
* SirLion^w nods
<shoshin{MMT}p> lil bear *applauding* well said!
* lil^bear` smiles..giggles thinks of herself out in da cold trying to fix her car..next couse bear takes is on being a mechanic!!!!!!!!
<`zee{LQ}> to rely on others for your happiness is wrong
* vixen{KO} knows all too well the truth in the words of her sisters
<SirLion^w> We Are our own licker control baord
* SirLion^w nods
* SirLion^w grins
* `zee{LQ} grins
<vixen{KO}> ;)
<SirLion^w> Sory, couldn't resist
* SirLion^w laughs
<shoshin{MMT}p> SirLion *checking my spelling* *LOL*
<sweetslave{AF}> be well A/all
* lil^bear` rubs her forehead
<lil^bear`> wonder if gor has any headache cures???
<`zee{LQ}> by sweet
<sweetslave{AF}> thanks KO and vixen...excellent discussion!
<SirLion^w> Tiger balm on the third eye perhaps?
* SirLion^w smiles
<vixen{KO}> sure....drop the homestone on your foot....your head ain't so bad then, huh?
<shoshin{MMT}p> KO & vixen..well done!
* lil^bear` giggles..
<`zee{LQ}> thank You KO Sir and sis.. Master had to depart but W/we both enjoyed it
<lil^bear`> well done Sir KO and vixen{KO}
<SirLion^w> Enjoyed this
* SirLion^w nods
<Kilted_One> thansk to all of you for making it worthwhile
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to KO and vixen for a great (and very lively) discussion!
* shoshin{MMT}p waving to A/all
<shoshin{MMT}p> HI!
<whispurr{SL}> thank Y/you so very much..tis so wonderful to learn and share...
<`zee{LQ}> so much to cover in so little time
* SirLion^w nods
<`zee{LQ}> so very nice to meet you and your Master whispurr{SL}
* `zee{LQ} nods respectfully to Sir
<Kilted_One> well I hop you liked KO and vixen's "brand" of gor....there are a lot of goreans out there that dont think its gor at all
<SirLion^w> Like describing how to achieve a zen state on line eh?
* vixen{KO} is greatful the discussion was a positive one...and hopes that many have gained a better understanding of the softer side of Gor
<shoshin{MMT}p> SirLion & whispurr, very nice to meet Y/you
* SirLion^w smiles gently
<SirLion^w> Thnak you, and yourselves as well
<TechnoMage`> Thanks KO and vixen! Sorry for "lurking", but I'm happy to say that I've learned...