January 20, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> It's just after 9 pm and time to start our regular Sunday discussion.
<canplay> good evening breeze53
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Moving from Online to Real Life". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> So, welcome everyone.
<BernieRoehl> The topic is moving from online (or "cyber") to real-life, something that I know at least some people here have done
<Omy> Some of us have done it more than once Bernie
<BernieRoehl> Certainly playing online is a good way to start, but most people eventually go on to play with each other in real life, and it's that transition that we're focussing on tonight
<KW-Brit> With success or failure?
<Kor`Erst> greetings all
<MrScotdom> Good evening Bernie Sir/ all. I note the topic is about transgressing from on-line to real-life and I have some sorry stories from female submissives about that transition....
<BernieRoehl> Any you can share, Scotdom?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what might be tonights topic ?
<MrScotdom> It would appear that a great number of our sisters in this lifestyle started out in the realms of the irc chat rooms... and this is good for the experienced I feel (My opinion and experience only) but it has lasting ramifications for the learned and the innocent.
<BernieRoehl> (if nothing else, a few cautionary tales might be a good jumping-off point for the discussion)
<breeze53> it is a good way to get your feet wet
<BernieRoehl> Moving from online to real life, DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty BernieRoehl
<RoryTate> can we define what online really is?
<breeze53> without getting them frozen
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I would have thought most had a taste R/L ,, which they hungered for,, then saught online
<RoryTate> is it merely looking at bdsm web sites? or is it actual net-domination or commands through email or something...
<KW-Brit> I believe that some would use the annonimity of 'online' to play far more than they ever would in reality
<Omy> I would have to say net-domination as you put it RoryTate
<BernieRoehl> The original idea for the topic was about online play (or "cyber") rather than just email or web sites
<canplay> i agree KW-Brit
<DarkAngel^{rt}> as in scene channels BernieRoehl
<xxendlessdesirexx> online to me, for many was and or can be a soft way of learning through observing and reading, a soft introduction for the curious, a pool of shallow water to learn in the safety of your own home, to perhaps see if it is something you seek/desire.
<MrScotdom> In my Intor on my website I defer the sentiment of doning just that... no matter what you read on the computer screen you are looking at right now... get out there just simply get out there. It is a daunting task for many... but no amount of IRC, ICQ, Bondage.com, Alt.com, webpersonals will give you the same realism as meeting the real live human D/s equivalent.
<KW-Brit> Everyone could probably be guilty at some time of crossing a line in cyber that they might not do if it was in their face.
<Omy> There is the issue of 'keyboard nerve' with new folks KW-Brit
<BernieRoehl> Yes, but feel free to broaden out the topic from there
<KW-Brit> Explain Omy
<MrScotdom> Many hide behind the anonymity of the keyboard.... what good is that for yourself or others?
<BernieRoehl> So any success stories? People who have started out in cyber in play, and moved to real-life?
<KW-Brit> Its exiting, Scotdom, flirty fun without consequences
<Omy> Its what you have explained...they do things online they'd never try in real time
<oasis{Omy}> i know of at least 4 marriages and three engagements
<xxendlessdesirexx> <--- had a on line relationship with a dom from holland for 4 years, turned out positive in many ways
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I think online, as well as specifically cyber has allowed many to explore what they were unable to find in R/L
<MrScotdom> I know several that use 5 different nicks.... how are the benefactors of our realm... ie you and I ever going to establish a rhetoric with a name.... whether it be a nick or not... we all need to symbolise ourselves with at least ONE name.
<Omy> Well Bernie, I met my first online and we were together for 8 years.
<Omy> The next one I met you all know and love
* Omy smiles at his girl
* oasis{Omy} blushes
* kierana smiles
<MrScotdom> Bernie. I feel that Munches are real life consequences from online lists such as EHBC... we are all here this evening nit by accident.... but due to the consequences of an online advertisment of such.
<Omy> I only have one nick MrScotdom...it is all I need
* RoryTate has tried to locate said real-time "cyber domination" for the last 6 or 7 years, but has never seen hide nor hair...
<DarkAngel^{rt}> MrScotdom ,, I have enough trouble remembering one name ,,, those you speek of might not be wrong ,, just nervous in their explorations
<KW-Brit> Yes Omy, but was that just used as a way to meet a safe bet rather than real life person and trying to build that relationship & wondering if they were into the scene? Is not the online a way of breaking a few barriers that you would not need to do in real time?
<canplay> i think there is a difference if meeting online with realistic expectations,,many do not have those and get hurt
<Kor`Erst> I met my submissive magenta online and we have delevoped to r/l almost 2 years ago online
<oasis{Omy}> i always meet on the grounds of friendship.. nothing more
<oasis{Omy}> have only ever had 1 bad meet...
<MrScotdom> I know today about at least 70 more human beings on this Earth and within the D/s realm... thanks to online sites... which led to Munches Play Partys etc... its the innocent... the IRC only wannabee subbies that I feel suffer the most.
<Omy> Exploring online different aspects KW-Brit is fine...but both parties should know that is what is going on. Too many make themselves out to be an expert at somethign they have never tried
<BernieRoehl> So for those who have done it (moving from initially being involved online to actual face-to-face (or whatever...) play), how was the transition? Easy? Hard? Any surprises?
<Kor`Erst> smiles and listens
* Trufriend thinks there will always be surprises Bernie
<oasis{Omy}> well it was hard on my ass... meeting Omy
<MrScotdom> For Me going to a Munch was relatively safe and one that I encourage in newbie submissives.
<xxendlessdesirexx> believe's that a pro of meeting an individual in the lifestyle on line gives you the benefit of learning the individual before meeting them, the factor of looks comes into play for many. personally i prefer one to meet me due to all other knowledge gained and gathered on me rather then looks. (but then you have all that on line fakeness in people being untruthfull ect.)
<Omy> There are always surprizes Bernie..you never know someone till you live with thme.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well for me BernieRoehl ,,, when I found online ,, I was OVERWHELMED ,, there were others out there just like me
* Trufriend is just trying to figure out what a nickname has to do with developing an online relationship with a person first?
<kneels> i haven't made such a transfer BernieRoehl....but i would imagine the actual PAIN would be a shock....it was when i went from fantasies about it to reality
<Trufriend> the idea is to get to know the real person, not the fascade
<MrScotdom> The problem I feel exists is the imagery that newbies get from online only. I do not know anyone who speaks like a typewriter.... hahahah.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and I went to my first munch less than a month later
* ^^zaR^^ suggests anyone on ehbc list can read a story appropriate to IRC and the participants on it ,,found in stories "blufeather and the HNG"
* `Argonaught wonders what the discussion is tonight as w/we were late
* DarkAngel^{rt} was always an eager hungry perv
<KW-Brit> Surely xxendlessdesirexx looks are secondary to the personality & the match
<Omy> We didn't find the transition to difficult though Bernie. We knew each other quite well..had spoken for several months and at least several weeks on the phone before meeting
<DarkAngel^{rt}> your laugh is funny MrScotdom ,,*evil wink*
<xxendlessdesirexx> you i am certain would then too be aware that there are ones that place looks above all, it is sad but also a factor for some in there choice
<DarkAngel^{rt}> i hope so KW-Brit ,,, I am an ugly sod
<``sxyfatchik``> lol
<KW-Brit> Well I'm not Fabio either
<xxendlessdesirexx> i enjoyed chattin on line when i started because i wanted to know the person not there looks, or possessions p
<heart_of_gold4> who's fabio
<kierana> wouldn't want fabio...lol
<`Argonaught> Me
* Trufriend doesn't think anybody is like Fabio....not even Fabio
<MrScotdom> We are all benefactors of those that put real time real hard work into play parties, munches, brunches etc... these are the people that are very much a realistic part of the society.... IRC only on the one end of the scale... and a guy who gives up his weekend to set up equipment, arrange venues... etc etc vans.. food... you name it... meanwhile He/she is probably juggling seeing their kids... that to me is a real hero...
<KW-Brit> So who is currently in a transition relationship then?
<xxendlessdesirexx> <---has a question
<oasis{Omy}> onlin opened many doors introduced me to people of like minds.. after meet others all over the globe.. i eneded up meeting many in Kitchner lol
* Omy raises his hand
* oasis{Omy} giggles
<Omy> Yes xxendlessdesirexx??
<xxendlessdesirexx> for those who have encountered the transition of on line to reality, how was it managed?, did it go well?... did you stay, did you turn back to online for some reason?
<Omy> my girl is 6 hrs from me KW-Brit until the fall
<`Argonaught> in snow or off the highway Omy ?
* enolah went from online to real...it didnt work out
<Omy> To be honest xxendlessdesirexx, when we went offline completly for awhile things got rough
<^^zaR^^> can you tell us why enolah,, and good question xxendlessdesirexx
<MrScotdom> I have great difficulty with this anomoly called LDR... I know I have to be more patient (something I teach submissives) but wne I hear of the LDR in California from the subbie in Kitchener... my brain just shuts off... what the heck are you going to learn about human interaction from a computer screen and a dogy phone call? grrrrr
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I find the only problem with on-line ,,, is the far greaterchances you are looking at a long distance relationship
<Omy> What's your question `Argonaught?
<KW-Brit> Tell us more enolah
<xxendlessdesirexx> :)
* syren[A] was r/l before being introduced to online bdsm chat
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and LDR's are hard in and of themselves ,,
<enolah> we did online long distance for two years...
<enolah> then i moved to live 24/7...
<enolah> the biggest factor...was communication problems
<DarkAngel^{rt}> thus I agree ,, the Munches Play Parties etc ,, are so much better for networking,, and meeting people within the community
<xxendlessdesirexx> to move to the real from online requires an enhanced view of judgement on ones behalf, a ton of questions for ones self should be asked.
<`Argonaught> if it takes longer because of the snow
* `Argonaught shuts up
<Omy> Makes no difference `Argonaught
<heart_of_gold4> with cams and mics now it should be less stressful with on-line meetings
<Trufriend> was it communication problems enolah, or too vivid imaginations building something hopeful that just couldn't be fulfilled
<Kor`Erst> smiles
<enolah> i think some of the reality was a shock
<Sir_StephenS> going from online to RL can be a simple sensory overload for some
<KW-Brit> Thats sounds too true of many relationships Trufriend
<enolah> but it ended up being only one of us wanted to communicate
<enolah> it doesnt work that way
<Omy> If the two people are not realistic about what they want, its never going to work. If they don't have the communication online, what makes them think they'll have it in real time?
<Like4u2cum> I think the problem with going from an online relationship to an offline one is you don't really have experience together and are merely acting on one another's word. It may get rougher if one is a little disappointed or believes they may have been misled.
<enolah> yes Like4u2cum!
<enolah> there was online communication...i was under the impression that would continue
<canplay> many times people hear only what they want online,, and not necessarily what is being said.
<enolah> it didnt
<enolah> that is very possible canplay
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but on the posetive side ,,, online is what many can safely enter the lifestyle ,, and explore and learn ,,, then make the decision to wander into a munch ,,, so in that,, it has posetive things,, thus good for some
<Trufriend> how does one set those "realistic" guidelines for themselves though....we all have dreams, fantasies and hopes for the way it could be.......
<Omy> Well enolah, if the communication dies, so does the relationship
<enolah> yes i know
<KW-Brit> Play Parties could be a good crossover venue then.
<^^zaR^^> im sure all of us have encountered that desparate seeking heart that has tied us to the puter ,,both hoping,,that something better is out there,,and maybe you've connected,, but going online to meeting rl can be dangerous,,look at the slavemaster killings,,i'm sure those girls believed his online personna was genuine too..
<`Argonaught> being online you can be very intimate though yet not leave your armchair
<MrScotdom> I have been an example of the differentiation between reality and online. Many folks have read my articles stories and posts... they either agree, disagree... love me or hate me... then when they finally meet the incorrigble Mr Scotdom they are amazed at how funny He is! Eh.. so much for the honesty in the writings.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> i dissagree KW-Brit ,,, I think Munches would be the best beginning
<oasis{Omy}> there are times people choose to only offer up a portion of themselves
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Play Parties ,, or Fet Nights might shock
<enolah> online has some benefits...i have certainly learned alot
<enolah> and i learned alot in the living real life
<^^zaR^^> <<urges caution,,understanding that there are alot of wackos on irc, and waiting OUT there for you
<`Argonaught> was that the guy from Kansas?
<MrScotdom> My definition of Play Parties does involve a healthy degree of voyureism.
<KW-Brit> Good point DarkAngel^{rt}
<MrScotdom> There are a lot of people there just to see the "flesh"
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty ^^zaR^^ ,,, but my medication is helping
<oasis{Omy}> sensory overload.. onr thing to imagine its another to experience
* canplay is thinking of reverse,, going from r/l to online for a break
* `Argonaught is often thought of as the biggest wacko on the net
<MrScotdom> I agree with you DarkAngel... Munches are the least obtrusive of the available events for newbies.
<^^zaR^^> However,,good things do happen,,(LOL DA) ,,we hooked up because of mutual friends found from IRC
<KW-Brit> Do you have any experience in this arena Bernie?
<Omy> Yes girls would be well to head the old addage...be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> size isnt everything `Argonaught ,,, I am average size
<Omy> err and guys
* `Argonaught chuckles
<heart_of_gold4> having done the cyber to munches i agree and so does
<heart_of_gold4> sir
<oasis{Omy}> am a witmess to what Master has said,, gawd help me
<heart_of_gold4> silver
<MrScotdom> The bottom line is the management... you can have the worst case scenario and a wonderful manager... and a best case scenario and a dick!
<`Argonaught> its how Y/you use it?
* jewel`{F} smiles up at her Master cause she did get what she wished for
<BernieRoehl> Not as much as others, KW-Brit -- I got into the scene before the online component existed (yes, I'm that old!)
<Like4u2cum> lol
* ^^zaR^^ chuckles at Bernie
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I think it good ,, that each make such a crossover ,, if and when they are ready ,,,, having learned what they needed ,, as responcible adults
<BernieRoehl> I've always enjoyed meeting people in real life, and even after all these years I still fine the online aspect too limiting for me personally
<Trufriend> no Bernie, You just started much younger than us
<oasis{Omy}> have you seen a great change in things since online Bernie
<oasis{Omy}> have you seen a great change in things since online Bernie
<Omy> Yeah well I did get the wheelchair you asked for Bernie
<MrScotdom> My coming out Bernie was definately accellerated by the advent of the internet in 1994.
<`Argonaught> syren was real life before she was online too and she's not that old either
<canplay> munchies are a nice introduction,, but i do not find that is a good place for meeting
* syren[A] smiles
<MrScotdom> I think all of us were here before we realised it...
<BernieRoehl> Yes, oasis -- I have. The number of people online has grown enormously, and there's much more of a gender balance (used to be an all-male domain, back in the early days)
<Kor`Erst> grins at kierana
<xxendlessdesirexx> (oww) *pout*
<oasis{Omy}> interesting
<BernieRoehl> Also, a lot more people are actually going out there to meet each other in person than ever before -- with all its risks and benefits
<MrScotdom> You dont wake up one morning and say.... OMIGOD.... I am a DOM.... or a subbie.... how did that happen?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> R/L is very hard to fine ,,, unless you know a friend of a friend of a friend thing ,,,,, online is what has helped our community grow and mature
<`Argonaught> dont switches still do that MrScotdom ?
<breeze53> i was introd in real life
<enolah> lol
* DarkAngel^{rt} ties xxendlessdesirexx down to the foot of his chair
<Omy> Laughing 0ut Loud `Argonaught
<MrScotdom> Yes the advent of the Internet has certainly exaserbated the numbers of memberships.... its bacj to the anonymity thing again.
<KW-Brit> Well I wouldn't have found you lot were it not for the web. (Is that a good thing??)
<xxendlessdesirexx> *looking up* ?
<Trufriend> I resemble that remark `Argonaught! lol
* `Argonaught chuckles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that is so you dont get chucked away again xxendlessdesirexx .... lolo
<enolah> i think online has lots of benefits...i think also you need to pay attention to your gut instincts and an red flags you may have
<Trufriend> yeah, we have a little light switch in our heads...up for Dominant and down for submissive
<BernieRoehl> So... is anyone here activelyl involved in a (so far) cyber-only relationship?
<kierana> well, i found out about this discussion at a munch, so i would say going from r/l to online and back can be good too...:)
<MrScotdom> The Internet is the most incredible form of communication invented so far in our lifetime... appreciate it...
<oasis{Omy}> one needs to be realistic
<xxendlessdesirexx> thank you Sir DarkAngel, you are too kind...always looking out for me :)
<Omy> If you try and conduct yourself online as you would in real time you'll be happier in the long run when you do meet real time
<enolah> mos timportant Omy
* dalian has been for over 4 years
<KW-Brit> Well said Omy
<`Argonaught> in truth syren and I use the internet for more than cybersex
<enolah> i think for myself that is where the biggest disappointment came from
<kierana> what KW said, Omy
<Omy> I maybe Dominant, bu that doesn't mean I don't have times I just want to curl up on the couch
<xxendlessdesirexx> what's cybersex? *smirk*
<DarkAngel^{rt}> besides xxendlessdesirexx ,,, I like looking down your top ,, LOL ,, going to enjoy introducing yo to others at next weeks Werx
<Sir_StephenS> noooooo...really, Omy??
<MrScotdom> I have found the online excursions breed contempt... you dont have to look pretty mean.. or happy... smile or frown... five words on the screen can change a persons thoughts about you... I have a hard time with submissives who have spent too much time online only... its like trying to convince someone that there is a better car than a Lada!
<BernieRoehl> And how are you finding it, dalian?
* ^^zaR^^ notes for the record the biggest difference is when you step from online to rl, the spankings hurt alot more
<xxendlessdesirexx> *blush*, be gentle Sir DarkAngel.... i will try to behave
<Omy> Its true I tell you!!! Honest!!! I'm not a paddle waving maniac all the time!
<breeze53> oh this is the one DA?
<enolah> i like that part zar:)
<Sir_StephenS> LOL
<`Argonaught> but an online collar can be bloody desasteroud
<KW-Brit> Whats wrong with a Lada?
* oasis{Omy} thinks he's feavered .. become delusional
* DarkAngel^{rt} winks at breeze53 ,,, yes hun ,,, she is new to our community ,, I will intro you to her
<xxendlessdesirexx> *paranoid*
<heart_of_gold4> lol
<breeze53> well thank You kind Sir
<DarkAngel^{rt}> an on line collar is invisible ,,, and as a Dom ,,, feels as such .....
<MrScotdom> Doms online seem to have a fascination with the implements.... ie floggers and whips.. but their mouth is writing cheques to submissives that thier experience and comprehension cannot cash.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> polaroid xxendlessdesirexx ?
<`Argonaught> from where I sit I can make syren say anything
<xxendlessdesirexx> d'oh... *p*a*r*a*n*o*i*d* Sir DarkAngel
<Trufriend> not to newcomers though DA, an online collar can be as real as the legitimate one
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I know ,, I owned a few ,, on line only as I was learning ,, experimenting ,,, and meeting ,,, the only real problem was distance
<xxendlessdesirexx> oh here is a thing for the convo...
<Omy> Well MrScotdom I think that goes both ways. I have known many girls who have written cheques their ass can't cash.
<MrScotdom> Newcomers are the epitome of the term "victim"
<enolah> i think that is true Trufriend especially a new submissive
<syren[A]> yes You do Master
<Omy> Actually mine is still writing the occassional cheque
<dalian> well Bernie...it provides a solid foundation and an outlet for me to express my submisiveness in a safe environment...there is no cybersex involved...there is the understanding that I wish to meet someone realtime...but until that happens I have a solid grounding with him in all aspects
<xxendlessdesirexx> ever notice though how some D/s relationships can be committed better on line then in real?... (vice versa i know) but from self expierence..
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I agree Trufriend ,,, but I could not convert them to the R/L that I saught
<MrScotdom> How many of you here are online only? I stick my neck out and say very few!
<Trufriend> HNG's and newcomers sometimes get wrapped up in the sexual aspect of this lifestyle......."Oh boy! I can order that sub to.....me when ever I want!"
<oasis{Omy}> just testing the waters on occasion Master
<DarkAngel^{rt}> only if they wish MrScotdom ,,,, and not if they find friends to help them in
<BernieRoehl> And do you anticipate being together in real life, dalian?
* enolah wont do online again
<syren[A]> i love You Master
<xxendlessdesirexx> testing waters... Sir DL would call that topping from the bottom.... (lol)
<MrScotdom> Online is the equivalent of holding a cactus with numb hands!
<enolah> meet and chat online yes...relatinship...no
<Trufriend> you're online now enolah
<MrScotdom> You know its there but you cannot feel it
<Trufriend> you mean you won't have an online relationship maybe?
<enolah> relationship wise Trufriend
<enolah> yes
<Trufriend> I thought so......but I think clarity is also important
<dalian> we approach our relationship very realistically...to be together is difficult due to distance....and is something we have struggled with many times...yet we have no illusions about it...and we have met offline
<enolah> youare right:) thanak you
* BernieRoehl nods
<Trufriend> no problem
<Omy> Here is a question...for those that have crossed the barrier...was your partner less then you imagined...more...or about the same?
<xxendlessdesirexx> for people who are in a relationship, and unhappy because they desire the D/s aspect in there lives, the online thing is a good place to turn to though...
<enolah> i think there are benefits to talking to ppl online...good ones
<MrScotdom> Reality is not a word you find used in LDR.
<xxendlessdesirexx> if all else fails
<oasis{Omy}> you know what i feel the dificulty is between the transitions in on line and real... time seems extended online... things move faster..excellerated to point where days seem to be weeks.. mins hours... than when real kicks in... its time to sort things out
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I surmise ,,, each seeks what they need at the time ,,, and in their life ,,, I think on line relationships certainly hold a respected position in my mind ,,, and just as important in our lifestyle
<BernieRoehl> Interesting question, Omy
<xxendlessdesirexx> cheating in a way...but not really
* RoryTate rings the bell as this discussion reaches 30 simultaneous participants!
<enolah> Omy....it ended being way less that what i thought...and more damaging
<Sir_StephenS> I myself am MasterBlahBlahBlah...but what does that mean?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> especially for the learning ,, if the people involved are actually interested in the lifestyle
<Kor`Erst> very true oasis it does seem that way at times
<MrScotdom> I suspect everyone here knows at least someone in reality... so there is the founding factors for a healthy interaction.... but what of those that are timid and sit at home alone?
<xxendlessdesirexx> *frown*
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and can develop into a good change-over into R/L ,,, be it to a group/community/ or relationship
<xxendlessdesirexx> everyone desires some sort of interaction to the lifestyle, especially if it is an ingrained need and desire..
<MrScotdom> DA... some think they are vanilla but are testing the waters... if we dont let them at least look in the door we shall never progress any further.
<Omy> Its not always that way enolah..hang in there
<QTIP> online is a wonderful resource for newbies. my 1st bdsm experience was in 74. a lot of mistakes were made along the way
<DarkAngel^{rt}> exactly MrScotdom ,, thus I say On line can have benefits
<DarkAngel^{rt}> exactly MrScotdom ,, thus I say On line can have benefits
<QTIP> no IRC then
<Trufriend> when I started online just over 5 years ago, the idea of putting my imagination to work responding to things I'd never experienced in the real world was fascinating...exciting...intoxicating.....until I got too carried away and thought I was truly in love with my "Partner" the online conversations geared to impossible meetings and rendevous....to 'running away together so we could live out our online scening......and I know I'
<enolah> no i know that, i have met in real life some terrific people...and learned both fromteh relationship and the community...it ws one bad choice on my part
<KW-Brit> Gosh Qtip must be even older than Bernie
<xxendlessdesirexx> <---has created a web site as a resource from a bottoms perspective, knowing full well more people like me desire knowledge without being pointed at.
<QTIP> ;-)
<MrScotdom> Yes... I am not excluding the online... but we ae not newbies here tonight that are using this online forum.
* BernieRoehl smiles
<xxendlessdesirexx> i wish when i was younger i had that sort of resource and was aware of it
<xxendlessdesirexx> i wish when i was younger i had that sort of resource and was aware of it
<Trufriend> that's why, now that I have experienced this lifestyle for real, I will not do any kind of online scening or wear a 'collar' that isn't physically real
<KW-Brit> Kidding guys!
<dalian> everyone talks about online as not being able to really get to know someone or develop a relationship...and I have to say that I've also met quite a few realtime who were more phony face to face...but then I've been fortunate
<MrScotdom> Its the newbies void of experience... that fall victim to the vultures of online only.
<KW-Brit> xxendlessdesirexx How many men have said that as they have got older.
* oasis{Omy} ponders the question a wee bit more... winks
<QTIP> the more dangerous vultures are in r/l
<xxendlessdesirexx> a good amount i am certain Sir
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but ,, I do not like seing people ,,, who wandered in and found a home ,,, looking down on those who are at the beginning of their own personal exploration ,,, looking down at online and online relationships
* BernieRoehl nods
<MrScotdom> Yes QTIP but first intros are online yes?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> gets back to the old "respect others kinks"
<RoryTate> i don't know about that MrScotdom - i would bet there are a lot of newbies here right now - they just aren't saying anything. Raise your hands, newbies!
<MrScotdom> We do not go from Real Life to Online..... its the other way around!
<enolah> there is much to be learned online...i think there is a need for balance tho...and munches and parties...with online...i thinkt hey help
<Argonaught`> but online is an excellent way to learn if you get the proper role models
<Omy> Agreed DarkAngel^{rt}...at times we are all guilty of this.
<xxendlessdesirexx> but now aday's, i feel that the more people learn about the lifestyle (the new people) the more we lose the line of reality in it, there are those that mock the lifestyle on line and the real "what was" has a hard time to show through to those who truly need and seek a life in the lifestyle
<KW-Brit> If they do that RoryTate they cant type!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> at times ,, we must remind ourselves ,,,, yup ,, I was there once ,, long long ago ,, in a galaxy far far away (1/2 of which my ex wife took)
<heart_of_gold4> !
<QTIP> i've met few friends i 1st new online. from chat we moved to email, then after a time to phone calls, then to those few meetings
<BernieRoehl> Time for a deeper question... how much of an online relationship is based on the art of illusion, of creating an image that you know "works" for you partner?
<MrScotdom> WHo knows what a proper role model is from text on your computer screen? c'mon?
<oasis{Omy}> When Master and i first met.. I was scared he would be what i knew him to be... i wasnt sure i was prepared to face my desires...
<Argonaught`> I qualified it by saying IF MrScotdom
<xxendlessdesirexx> (may i pm you Sir DarkAngel?)
<`abi> how much of a r/l relationship is based on the same thing Bernie...at least in the beginning?
<Edgelust> lol Bernie, we call that lying where I live :)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl QTIP ,,, I like to assist newbies ,, who are nervous comming out to their 1st munch
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yes xxendlessdesirexx
<xxendlessdesirexx> ty Sir
<Omy> bernie...if you are not true to yourself then your relationship is a deck of cards that will fall when it meets the light of day
<QTIP> DarkAngel, i always like to suggest a local munch to newbies as well
<MrScotdom> I cannot answer that Bernie... I have ever been an online only.... most folks know the name Mr Scotdom and where I live and attend..... no need to pretend when your potential suitors can travel 50km and meet you.
<xxendlessdesirexx> many people take on line as a role play only, how many agree with that?. is that what is wanted by most?.. a part time fictional?
<dalian> to be honest Bernie...I think I succumbed to that illusion in the early days of the relationship...however, after 4 years of talking to someone nearly every night...you can't hold up a facade for that long...
<enolah> i think illusion...if used to create a false sense of who you are isnt the wya to go...but using creativeity to create ideas, growing minds that is differnt
<Omy> I think that is part of it xxendlessdesirexx. For some that is all they will ever have
<DarkAngel^{rt}> breeze / gueast ,,lol,, please PM me when you get a sec
<Argonaught`> i would think any form of mutual meeting either online or R/l scene is a great way to learn about O/our lifestyle
<xxendlessdesirexx> for some that is all they need, whatever there reason
* oasis{Omy} from experinces in the past i was prepared to find a different person real than on line.. instead i saw other things far more intrgueing mixed in with what i had come to know as true
<Argonaught`> a lot of people have been swayed into it from being online
* BernieRoehl nods
<MrScotdom> The expression LDR makes me want to reach for the nearest Air Canada sick bag... it is utterly phoney... Its the online equivalent of a meanigful relationship with a blow up doll!
<heart_of_gold4> i disagrre with it being roleplay only , can have many benefits especially to newbies
<Sir_StephenS> I would say even in RL we create an image that 'works' for our partner, so that online and RL are not that different
<BernieRoehl> The reason I ask is that many people seem to say that the reality of their online partner doesn't seem to match the expectations, so I wonder how much of those expecations was based on perception rather than reality
* Argonaught` wonders if syren would agree with that Bernie
<MrScotdom> Its totally phoney Bernie.....
<Sir_StephenS> Bernie, there is no reality independent of perception
<xxendlessdesirexx> <---did not imply that it was only roleplay, did mention that many see it as just that,... which in a form is a sort of release from the everyday, a dip into the different
<enolah> for myself...they were basic expectations..things stated who the person was how they lived, what they wanted...
<Edgelust> I think people are more likely to project qualities onto online people...then when they meet it becomes apparent
<dalian> depends on how you interpret LDR...in my particular case it is a deep frienship where he provides the role of mentor along my journey
<MrScotdom> Phoney with a Capital PPPPPPPPPPPP!
<Omy> MrScotdom some tolerance please...to many it is all they have...if it makes them happy...if its how they chose to define it...then who are we so say its worthless?
<xxendlessdesirexx> agrees
<KW-Brit> But everyone forms their own mental imagery Bernie that invariably cannot be achieved in reality
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I disagree MrScotdom ,,, it is hard ,, and takes more work (more than I was able to give ,, true) ,, but it can lead to more
<xxendlessdesirexx> (poor breeze)
<Edgelust> online or/and over the phone cannot provide what the chemistry will be like
<MrScotdom> In real life its worthless.... I am not against the cerebrial treasures of one who is far away.... to me I am a realist.... not a "phoney" image 3000 miles away.
* BernieRoehl agrees with KW-Brit
<heart_of_gold4> there are some like that where i hang out, for the most part its newbies being with other newbies
<xxendlessdesirexx> it cannot provide, it can hint at what can be, what isn't and what one could have
<heart_of_gold4> experimenting learning from each other
<Argonaught`> but there are a heck of a lot of people who play a role online
<heart_of_gold4> about r/l
* RoryTate is totally phoney. inn fact he's not even a real human, but a pidgeon with a laptop who types with his beak!
<Edgelust> yes and that 'hint' is too often projection
<``sxyfatchik``> lol
<xxendlessdesirexx> online is the waterwings of the soon to be expert diver
<Sir_StephenS> LOL Rory
<MrScotdom> Thats commentable DA.... but I cannot even get into the headspace of someone that I have a 99% chance of not meeting.
<xxendlessdesirexx> (ooo that was well put)
<BernieRoehl> True enough, Argonaught. Anyone have any theories why people do that? Why the create an online persona that's so different from who they really are?
<Edgelust> Play a role online ..yeah some tops/dommes bottom out in person..or so I've heard :)
<enolah> ihave learned alotonline, lsitening and talking to people, reading so much information. iadmit i had some unrealistic ideas of wht ai thought it would be...i was disappointed in not being able to communicate and work things out
* DarkAngel^{rt} lol @ RoryTate ,,, and a damn nice pidgeon ,, I have met him
<KW-Brit> Cor. Good metafors in here
<Omy> That was not called into question MrScotdom. There are however long and enduring friendships made online.
<xxendlessdesirexx> *grins*
<DarkAngel^{rt}> LDR does not mean never meeting MrScotdom ,,, I have been in a few
<`abi> Perhaps Bernie, they are creating the persona of the person they'd like to be ...don't we all do that a little bit .. even in real life?
<KW-Brit> KW-BRIT In best Groucho pose "I never metafor I didn't like"
<Edgelust> Bernie, people can create an image online that eliminates any of their faults..
<DarkAngel^{rt}> in fact ,, my slave living 1 hour away might even count as one ,,,, but she is here 1/2 the week
<kierana> tru abi, tru
<xxendlessdesirexx> lmao @ KW Sir
<MrScotdom> Yes OMY.... and I have met over 70 people thanks to online groups, munches etc... we are discussing the fragility of online only hundreds thousands of km apart.
<xxendlessdesirexx> (thinks Sir Dark is a lucky.......)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> a lucky ...... asshole ?...lol
<xxendlessdesirexx> never said that!
<xxendlessdesirexx> *looks around* i didn't
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol,,, going to twist a nipple anyways ,, *evil chuckle*
<Argonaught`> syren and I met someone who got her whole life's fantasies fulfilled from the net didnt we syren?
<xxendlessdesirexx> *grins*
<RoryTate> she said it, DA! i heard her!
<BernieRoehl> So is it about "perfecting" themselves -- creating a flawless image for others to interact with?
<heart_of_gold4> i think people who pretend to be something there not possibly are too scared, but are drwn to bdsm
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty RoryTate ,,, ^5
<xxendlessdesirexx> hey!
<Edgelust> and 'feeling' perfect
<Trufriend> consider online relationships like a magazine shoot.....all the faults are airbrushed out before publication, but if you meet the model face to face, she's really human (with faults)
<xxendlessdesirexx> did not!
<KW-Brit> KW-Brit gets his tweezers out, ready to tweak an out of line
<syren[A]> yes Master, that W/we did
<enolah> i think some people like the rantasy online can give...its an escape from real life
<xxendlessdesirexx> looks @ RoryTate
<MrScotdom> OK let me propose an example..... those that HAVE a partner... give them up tomorrow for online ONLY. Those that have NOT... give up hope of being allowed to meet that LDR person... see how you feel now!
<Omy> It works for some MrScotdom. It might not be how we define a relationship. However, BDSM is whatever two consenting adults chose to make it. If they chose to make it on-line only and are happy with that. All the power to them then.
<enolah> rantasy??/hm fantasy
<xxendlessdesirexx> *puppygirl eyes*...never said it.... (thought it maybe) but never said it
<`abi> or learning to see themselves in a different way Bernie ... I began online to explore how I might be different ... it was the beginning of an evolution for me
<canplay> i envy the online sub,, i feel she gets the best hours of the Doms day
<KW-Brit> Tweaks xxendlessdesirexx on the tit
<Argonaught`> lol
<Omy> That doesn't work MrScotdom...cause its not what *I* would choose to do.
<xxendlessdesirexx> *pokes out the other* i have two Sir....
<dalian> not necessarily canplay...lol
<Argonaught`> syren doesnt give me any time to play with other subbies online
* BernieRoehl nods at abi
<KW-Brit> Tweaks again
<MrScotdom> You mean it does not work for "you" OMY?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<xxendlessdesirexx> *smiles eyes rolled back*
<xxendlessdesirexx> ty sir may i have another?..lol
<Omy> Agreed MrScotdom
<enolah> online i discovered who i was..and found words for what i ws interested it, and found similar people...i think that is important
<`abi> do you tweak in r/l MrScotdom?
<`abi> oops ... KW-Brit I mean
<angel[SS]> that is how i found out too enolah
<MrScotdom> What does tweak mean 'abi?
<heart_of_gold4> i agree enolah
* Argonaught` knows syren hates having her nipples bitten or nippleclamps
* DarkAngel^{rt} gropes on line ,, but only hugs with permission R/L
<KW-Brit> Plucks a pube from xxendlessdesirexx
<Argonaught`> she has EVILthoughts when I do it
<enolah> thru online i found groups of ppl to meet in real life
<Edgelust> lol DarkAngel
<`abi> I have no idea MrScotdom ...that's why I wondered if K-WBrit did it in R/l ;)
* syren[A] knows that is exactly why Master enjoys doing it
<xxendlessdesirexx> lol!... i am far from that european Sir KW
<KW-Brit> Made your eyes water, stops you being naughty!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> she is nicely bald KW-Brit ,,, lol,,
<xxendlessdesirexx> i am naughty?
<xxendlessdesirexx> lol how would you know Sir D.....wait....i never asked that
<BernieRoehl> Well, we have about five minutes left in the formal part of the discussion... anyone have anything else they'd like to add?
<KW-Brit> Have tweezers will travel abi
<enolah> trust your instincts if youa re going to meet some one...and be safe
<DarkAngel^{rt}> certainly xxendlessdesirexx ,,, and if KW-Brit goes to the Werx ,, he can meet you ,, but certainly better not pick a pube ,,, lol,, thus one problem in the online to R/L conversion
<MrScotdom> The reality of the faction is that the victims of online are the epitome of vurnerability... they seek curiosity withing the safety of their own home via the computer... they are the most vurnerable.. void of a face, voice nor personality... the text alone can distract the distraught.
<xxendlessdesirexx> excellent topic Bernie, a good deal of thought... excellent on line info
<Omy> The online world like the offline world is full of different people from differnt walks of life.
<xxendlessdesirexx> who's a prob?...KW-Brit?
* ^^zaR^^ pouts realizing DA has been only teasing about groping,,baaddd DA
<Like4u2cum> A real "spank me chick" that xxendlessdesirexx
* DarkAngel^{rt} gropes ^^zaR^^ ,,
<KW-Brit> A good evening of intellectual debate
<xxendlessdesirexx> hey!......
* Argonaught` rthinks an online collar can be a wonderful experience if the right people hook up well HEY its great
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to everyone for participating! With 32 people in channel, it's obviously a popular topic.
<Trufriend> so in summary....to take an online relationship into the real world.....we need to consider honesty, realistic goals and aspirations, what else
<Omy> It is less real to some, more real to others. Each persons perception affecting how they conduct themselves
<xxendlessdesirexx> no Bernie we are all here cause of you! *wink*
<dalian> funny you should say that Sctodom...there are many realtime who are devoid of face, personality and voice as well
* BernieRoehl smiles
<xxendlessdesirexx> lol
<KW-Brit> KW-Brit tweaks all the nips he can reach, just for the fun of it
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty BernieRoehl ,, a good discussion
<MrScotdom> Get out there.... go to a Munch.... one personal in your face event will far surpass 3 months of banging on your keyboard.
<oasis{Omy}> awsome topic Bernie.. thanks as always :)
<xxendlessdesirexx> <--- for the record... is a very well behaved subbie
<Omy> Great topic Bernie
* RoryTate has no nips; only feathers
<BernieRoehl> Just a reminder to everyone that nex week's discussion topic is "Symbols of Submission", and it will be moderated by xxendlessdesirexx
<^^zaR^^> banging my keyboard? grin,, now thats kinky
<enolah> Bernie...do you havea moment? may i msg you?
* Omy looks at xxendlessdesirexx and chuckles
<KW-Brit> KW Plucks too
<xxendlessdesirexx> *grins*
<kierana> thank You Bernie for the discussion tonight
<Argonaught`> syren has beautiful niples
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, enolah
<MrScotdom> There is NO SUBSTITUTE for reality.... no matter how long you've been tyoing on your keyboard.... nothing.
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, Omy
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ahhh ,, excellent xxendlessdesirexx
<Omy> Not everyone has that ability MrScotdom
<xxendlessdesirexx> i look foward to next weeks discussion on Symbols of Submission
* syren[A] agrees 100% with MrScotdom
<DarkAngel^{rt}> reality is a concept
<Kor`Erst`> smiles
<Omy> For some MrScotdom, online *IS* their reality
<RoryTate> yeah, but for some of us, reality tende to evade our grasp most of the time...
<MrScotdom> Reality is life.... keyboard os fiction.
<`abi> reality is an illusion ;)
* DarkAngel^{rt} plans to buy some litle symbols for his slave to wear
* dalian also goes to muches and the odd fetnight
<kneels> thank you all for your interesting opinions, sleep well :)
<KW-Brit> Reality is a myth, we are all the results of our own imaginations
<DarkAngel^{rt}> be well kneels
<Omy> be well kneels
<heart_of_gold4> depends on whos behind the keyboard lol
<MrScotdom> Madness takes its toll........ please have exact change!
<QTIP> how about this one: "the illusion of control"?
<heart_of_gold4> isnt that a dom thing lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> reality is different for every single person ,, I do not impose mine on others ,,, only the one who has given me the power
<BernieRoehl> Okay, I've closed the log... thanks again, everyone!
<MrScotdom> Thankyou BERNIE.... the fastest HOUR I have ever spent sitting in front of the glass screen!
* BernieRoehl smiles
<heart_of_gold4> thank you bernie
<Kor`Erst`> good discussion
* kierana chuckles