January 19, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Confidentiality and Trust". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<jen{SE}> no discussion tonight?
<tc_terri{MM}> doesn't seem to be jen
<`abi> it just turned nine
<`abi> jump in and start any time you like
<jen{SE}> hello tc_terri{MM} & abi
<`abi> hi jen
<tc_terri{MM}> hi
<tc_terri{MM}> the topic is interesting
<yummy> so anyone anti?
<jen{SE}> Hmmm, confidentiality & trust as in trusting people in the community to keep things confidential?
<yummy> i have trouble as seeing anyone saying both aren't good thing
<jen{SE}> i agree they are good things but are they consistently applied?
<tc_terri{MM}> there is a certain amount of confidentiality needed in the community,
<tc_terri{MM}> you wouldn't want to "out" anyone at work for instance
<jen{SE}> for example, a BDSM relationship breaks up, the mud starts flying, where is the confidentiality or trust
<jen{SE}> people will be people, angry hurt people will react the same way lifestyle or no lifestyle
<jen{SE}> but for the most part i do believe confidentiality is maintained and respected
<yummy> if someone outs me, they out themselves most likely
<yummy> its a catch 22
<jen{SE}> but outing is more damaging for some then others, yummy, if someone was to out me, not much damage, but if i was a teacher, a cop, etc.. a lot more damaging
<tc_terri{MM}> I'll never forget bumping into a woman I worked with at a munch, we both felt a little awkward
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ tc_terri{MM}, that happened to me a couple of times at the Kitchner munch
<jen{SE}> a friend of Bernies worked at the same company as i did *lol*
<tc_terri{MM}> lol, well it was rather cute, I couldn't believe she was submissive, She is so very Domme at work
<jen{SE}> i have heard other people say the sam
<tc_terri{MM}> come to think of it, so am I at work
<jen{SE}> same even
<jen{SE}> and confidentialy and gossip, people gossip but don't think it is breaking confidentiality, cause it is just gossip *lol*
<yummy> i think we all know the difference between the two, its not a scene thing, really, gossip and confidentiality is something that we encounter everywhere in life
<jen{SE}> i trust when i go to a private event, what i may have done or said does not get splashed on the list the next day
<jimet> what happens at a event should stay there
<`abi> so jen, you mean I shouldn't have told anyone about that amazing thing you did with your tongue? ... oops
<tc_terri{MM}> lol
<jen{SE}> *lol*, nooo that would be advertising `abi, free marketing is a good thing *grins*
<`abi> lol
<tc_terri{MM}> it wouldn't upset me, if one of my friends, saw me playing at an event, and told another friend about it, I would likely be flattered that they were talking about me
<Achilles{tr}> ...and they told two friends... and so on, and so on..
<jen{SE}> exactly the way i feel tc_terri{MM}, we learn alot from watching and talking, the fine line is when it is constructive vs destructive
<tc_terri{MM}> good point
<`abi> but, does the person doing the telling necessarily know what is destructive?
<jen{SE}> i would hope my friends do
<jen{SE}> and that is the difference, talking among friends.. vs just talking to anyone or a list at large
<jen{SE}> someone who did not know me very well, decided to repeat on a list something i had said to a Dominant friend, totally out of context..
<mist{LW}> i think that if someone goes to a public event, that they should be prepared to be talked about by the other people who attend that even, it seems silly to go to something public if your worried about what might be said about one
<jen{SE}> yeppers, public vs private, what i expect from a public event vs a private is different
<mist{LW}> i dont think that one should be talking outside the event tho, to people who didnt attend or dont attend them
<Lord`Wolf> very true
<mist{LW}> at least not using nicks anyway
<mist{LW}> its one thing to say, gee, did you see that awsome whip work at DAL, as opposed to saying did you see how hard Soandso beat on His sub
<Achilles{tr}> It wasn't THAT bad.
<mist{LW}> lol
<jen{SE}> hmm, being i love a good hard scene, i think i would enjoy the latter part better *grins*, just joking
<mist{LW}> see, and i didnt even use nicks lol
<Lord`Wolf> names should nor be used oustside of the party when describeing what goes on
<mist{LW}> but thats how easy it is to get things turned around
<jen{SE}> next thing You know You could be a murderer Achilles{tr} Sir *lol*
<Achilles{tr}> Hoo boy.
<mist{LW}> i know, because it happened to me a while back, in that i was accused of outing someone, when all i did was refer someone to a service that one of the members provides, knowing that both members had met at munches before.
* Kilted_One has it on good authority that there is at least one murderer among us <EG>
* BernieRoehl listens intently to the conversation
<`abi> checking up on ModBot Bernie?
<`abi> you need to program some opinions into him I think
<jen{SE}> Confidentiality means different things to different people, much depends on how much or important it is for people to keep the lifestyle separate from the rest of their vanilla life
<BernieRoehl> Yeah, as a matter of fact I am. Didn't want to say anything that would make it self-conscious.
<jen{SE}> and some people by nature are private people
<mist{LW}> seems rather silly to be at public events and know the person is known, by someone who needs the service, but not want to have people refered to them
<jen{SE}> so mist{LW}, that fits into what i was saying what is not a big deal for you might be for someone else
<mist{LW}> how can one break confidentiality if the person is already known to the other individual tho
<jen{SE}> the other person may be known but maybe their vanilla service was not
<mist{LW}> oh, it would be a big deal if my being here were to get to where i work, trust me
<mist{LW}> it was very well known
<`abi> known in the community doesn't necesarrily mean that they wish to share their vanilla life outside of the community
* Kilted_One agrees with jen...professional ppl with employees may treat things a lot different that individuals who are say self employed or working for a company
* mist{LW} shrugs, i guess i wont ever refer to anyone again then, for fear of breaching confidentiality
<jen{SE}> *lol*, it is safer
<jen{SE}> i trust my friends not to cross boundaries, i trust everyone else might.. *lol*, so i act and share information accordingly
<Achilles{tr}> That should do it mist{LW}!
<Kilted_One> or email addy??
<jen{SE}> no personal information should be shared with anyone else without consent, sheesshhhh , i had to use that darn consent word
<mist{LW}> strange, thougth that was how businesses got more customers, by being refered to by pleased clients, guess i was wrong in that thought
<drauma{MzT}> email is a little different, most of us have anonymous email accounts already, so sharing it is a little less of an issue in my mind
<jen{SE}> we have to take responsiblity for ourselves only we can judge the risk involved
* Kilted_One thinks that in our lifestyle of "extreme" I wonder why we dont take respect issues likes these to the same extreme??
<BernieRoehl> bbiab
<jen{SE}> agrees with KO
<drauma{MzT}> because we tend to be trusting in certain contexts?
<jen{SE}> but also knows people will be people, like i mentioned earlier, how many people have been outed or had their confidentiality/trust broken by a relationshiop gone south
<Achilles{tr}> ery true KO and just becasue one participates in bdsm does not mean one is advertising or seeking customers in the bdsm community. What an absurd assumption to even suggest.
<drauma{MzT}> I am interested in ponyplay, I trust my close friends to refer people to me who would further that interest
<drauma{MzT}> there is outing within the community, and outing to the whole wide world
<drauma{MzT}> the later is a major sin
<mist{LW}> i think that the issue here is that a service was needed, and a community member provides the service, and was already known to the person looking, what is wrong in giving the business number to that person, no private info was given out
<drauma{MzT}> the former is dangerous, but not always
<mist{LW}> its in the bloody phone book
<mist{LW}> under the service listings
<jen{SE}> why do we assume the community is so trustworthy, how many people have we met over the years who just pass through it, they have no vested interest
<jen{SE}> community is no better or worse than anywhere else some can be trusted some can't
<drauma{MzT}> we assume our close freinds and relatives are trustworthy, its how we simplify our lives
* jen{SE} things a business numnber is very personal....
<drauma{MzT}> it is, but, if a business number is outed, then it isnt
<drauma{MzT}> for example, the number of a tatoo parlor is outed
<aymelek{BH2}> if it's in the phone book, how can it be inteded to not be given out?
<mist{LW}> exactly my point
<jen{SE}> is the person's lifestyle nick in the phone book or is their professional name, very big difference
<drauma{MzT}> ther persons affiliation to the number is the issue here
<yummy> well is anything in life confidential or is privacy just a comforting illusion?
<Kilted_One> mist{LW} it would seem that there was "something" that 'someone' took exception too within your experiences, so would it not make some sense to consider taking the advise that was suggested and passing the info to the "service" and letting the service make the call to the individual??
<Achilles{tr}> Perhaps accepting that info you revealed about someone was inappropriate and has casued that person some personal distress is the first tep towards learning from the error rather than trying to come up with reasons why you had some 'right' to provide the information whether it caused the community member distress or not?
<jen{SE}> agrees with KO
<mist{LW}> the person wears her professional clothing to the munches, how much more out can one be??
<drauma{MzT}> sometimes time is an issue, the service may not be responsive in the needed time frame
<mist{LW}> oh, have been very careful since then
<mist{LW}> dont refer anyone to anyone
<mist{LW}> simple solution
<tc_terri{MM}> well said Achilles
<jen{SE}> agrees with Achilles{tr}
<Kilted_One> I wear my work jacket to a munch but I dont expect to have my boss being told that he can get advise from KO on D/s cause I understand that he is into that sort of thing, by someone else who works at the same place who attended the same munches
* aymelek{BH2} agrees
<`abi> but it would be such good advice KO ;)
* jen{SE} has to go, company has come home
<aymelek{BH2}> refereals should be discussed with both parties before either name or number is given to the O/other
<Kilted_One> I dont think wearing my works jacket to a munch "excludes" me from recieving respect from a fellow kinkster
<drauma{MzT}> yes, but the BOss isnt clearly part of the lifestyle in that scenario
<Kilted_One> yeh abigaille but you havent seen my "Mormon" boss <smiles>
<`abi> lol
<Lord`Wolf> agrees if IO want people to know who.what i am I will tell but If they already know it no big deal
* Trufriend just learned that a caseworker she's been referred to is actually a fella that's been trying to swing a date with her! what to do?
<`abi> ask for a discount?
<drauma{MzT}> mmm, is there any conduct policy about dating clients trueFriend?
<drauma{MzT}> sorry, Trufriend
<drauma{MzT}> hmmm, youse the client I suppose, so you wouldnt know about the policy...
<drauma{MzT}> perhaps ask to be assigned to another caseworker, then consider the date issue
<drauma{MzT}> make it clear there is no animosity, explain the posisble romantic interest
<drauma{MzT}> or sumptin like that
* Kilted_One has actually found the exact opposite with at least one fellow employee that works in the same place as myself and we dont even discuss our lifestyles at work period
<drauma{MzT}> often it is difficult to avoid being overheard at work, that seems a very sane way to handle it KO
<jewel`{F}> Master has that as well, not only does He work with someone in the lifestyle but also a cousin of mine lifestyle is never mentioned
<drauma{MzT}> I member one Domme friend of mine who has a paralegal background mentioning how interesting it was to see a judge on the bench, the morning after...
<drauma{MzT}> :-)
<Kilted_One> I think the other thing that I have found (personal experience) is that we dont always feel the same way about issues as others that are involved with the issue. It maybe simply that there is "personal emotion" involved for others and as such the reactions are that much more sensitive
<Lord`Wolf> there is a time and place for everthing
<Lord`Wolf> bdsm and vanille world should be kept in thier sweparate worlds
<drauma{MzT}> why?
<drauma{MzT}> they are intermixt for many of us
<drauma{MzT}> but, what compartmentalization there is should be respected
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<drauma{MzT}> I think it comes down to personal responsibility, one has to be careful
<Lord`Wolf> i agree sometime it better then put foot in mouth
<Kilted_One> in at least some cases, if one simply took a minute to think things through they may have handled things a little differently
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Lord`Wolf> yes One must stop and think