January 9 2000 EhBC Online Discussion


<BernieRoehl> I've just set an automatic message on the channel that reads as follows...
<MistressAstra> hi forbidden
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using raptor.ab.ca.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "One Dom, Multiple Submissives -- Building a 'Stable' Relationship". The moderator tonight is MsMaTiia. Enjoy the discussion!
<shoshin> Kirspin, Dukedom..greetings Gentlemen
<`zee> DukeDom Sir eveing
<ddesire> umm..im tired <giggle>.....and cant wait to show off my new toy
<ddesire> hiya DD, Sir
<`TimberWolf> :))))))
* shoshin settling in to listen
<bottoms_up^> hello DukeDom ;)
* `zee takes her kneel to the side quietly
<bottoms_up^> heya forbidden *hugs*
* vixen{KO} pokes zee
* `zee looks schocked at vixen{KO} than smiles
<bottoms_up^> whats the topic anyhow?
<BernieRoehl> And now, over to MsMatiia
<MsMatiia> Good Evening all
<`TimberWolf> LOL
<vixen{KO}> evening Ma'am
<sami^^> evening Tiia
<MsMatiia> My present stable of mainly male aubmissives, crossdressers, etc. have beed with me for an average of 4 years
<DukeDom> MsMatiia is on Hebron which means she is probably lagged to Raptor
* `zee nods to DukeDom Sir
<MsMatiia> wikll that create a mjor problem? -`TimberWolf- Your ping time is 1sec.
<MsMatiia> sorry, long fingernails, I'll have to slow down
<DukeDom> nope ... go ahead
<MsMatiia> NO questions, yet?
<KneelB4me> hello
<MsMatiia> The advantages of a stable:
<MsMatiia> For one thing you get variety
<shoshin> Madame.. why would a Dom/me want a stable?
<lil^bear`> a stable? -`TimberWolf- PING reply : 1 second(s) From raptor.ab.ca.dal.net
<`forbidden> one Dom/me many subs/slaves = stable
<`zee> who gets the variety Ma'am?
<Opal```> the Dom/me gets variety
* `slutkat` chuckles
<`TimberWolf> I prefer a manger personally
* `slutkat` looks at `TimberWolf
<`TimberWolf> better lofts and more beams to tie on too
<Finn^m^> not a stable relationship TW?..:)
<MsMatiia> If you are into most aspects of D/s and like to experiment with different bodies and of course different personalities having more than one sbmissive gives you this variety.
<`forbidden> i'm curious if a Dom/me feels the need to treat all in the stable as equal
<shoshin> Madame, do You find it takes a great amount of Your time.. being "present" for the subs?
<^^blush^^> ok... i'm just going to spit out my view here... i feel that having a stable.. is basically just Doms using their position for their own advantage... they can do what they want.. whereas they tell subs that they are not allowed to be with others.. i don't agree with it
<MsMatiia> actually the only stablility is if the submissive has been with you a longer period of time.
* ^^blush^^ ducks and hides now
* Peaches`` agrees with blush ..... that's why i popped my head into this chat just now, cuz i can't believe what the topic is tonight .....
* lexical drags ^blush out
<`forbidden> i'm kinda with you on that blush
<EmpoweredOne> good point blus I agree
<MsMatiia> I understand blush, but a caring Dom/me will allow His/Her subs to play with others
<`zee> thought not all stables are set up as a one way avenue
* ^^blush^^ feels a little safer now... thanks for backing me up
<`forbidden> but most are zee
<^^blush^^> i know that won't be popular with the Doms.. but i think its wrong
<DukeDom> how do you know that forbidden?
<sami^^> what about a sub with more than one Dom/me?
<vixen{KO}> agreed Tiia....a caring Dom/me will permit shared variety....
<MsMatiia> The only stipulation is that they should report to the Dom/me how their other experiences went.
* Peaches`` sighs with relief ..... oh good, then the topic NEXT week is "One Sub, Multiple Doms ... how to build a stable relationship" ..... ok, much much better
<`forbidden> ok from my experience i have seen only 'stables' where the Dom has a variety and the sub does not
<`forbidden> that better DukeDom?
* shoshin agrees with zee.. having seen Madame's stable & how the subs are treated & encouraged to grow in many wyas
<`TimberWolf> :)
* `slutkat` pencils in next sunday nite at 9 to be here
* |Karen feels that there are far more monogamously minded submissives, then Dom/mes....that Dom/mes who want a stable just want it all without caring about their subs
<MsMatiia> I know a female sub who has multiple Doms
<`zee> poly isnt for E/everyone but there are pros and cons to it as well
<sami^^> waving Tiia :)
<`forbidden> is she collared to any of them MsMatiia?
<vixen{KO}> you're right karen....it is a matter of demographics, unfortunately for many subs
<DukeDom> is that right Karen? ... I disagree
<MsMatiia> I consider myself very caring, if not then why are they staying with me?
<sami^^> yes i am forbidden
<DukeDom> I consider myself caring as well
<MsMatiia> Being a stable mamber also has its advantages:
<Peaches``> group medical plan?
<|Karen> it's an unpopular opinion, I'm quite aware...
<`slutkat`> rofl
<sami^^> lmao!
<SirLancelot`> lol
<MsMatiia> One can be married, one can have an outside vanilla girlfriend, and one is not "tied down" (pun intended) to be at the Dom's beck and call
<BernieRoehl> I know some Doms (and some Dommes) who have many collared submissives. In some cases it works well, in some cases it doesn't.
<`zee> i have found that it takes a great deal of care to keep communication open and the waters smooth within a multi relationship
<`slutshado`> Panthor.....ask before you pm ok
<MsMatiia> For the Dom/me has others to help and serve Her/Him
<Panthor> sorry
<MsMatiia> Yes zee it is not easy
<shoshin> Karen.. i think there are differences.. i have seen generally online Doms gather a stable for no other reason than to stroke Their Own ego... but i have seen Madame's stable & know it is wonderful for the subs
<Panthor> thought we couldnt just say "hi", etc in the window here
* Kilted_One spanks vixen{KO} with a @! *fwap*
<|Karen> for those who are genuinely polyamorous such as Dukey (whom I do like and respect) it's cool....but I feel that there are far more Doms that fit my stated profile than there are those who can genuinely love more then one
<MsMatiia> And the hardest part is making them all realize that every single one of them is precious in their own way
<`slutshado`> a.s.l. is not saying hi Panthor
<Panthor> may I pm you, shado?
<`slutshado`> no -`forbidden- {{{ `forbidden's Op Notice }}} ok who wants to take the Panthor out?
<Panthor> ROFLMAO now
*`abi:@#BDSM-kw* go for it forbie
* Peaches`` gets her calendar out .... ok, lemme write this down
<`slutkat`> lol -Kilted_One- [OPNOTICE:#BDSM-KW] vixen wants too
<Panthor> well then.....why ask you here and the answer is no anyways!? -`forbidden- {{{ `forbidden's Op Notice }}} ah could someone else explain how discussion hour works...
<Panthor> LOL
*`abi:@#BDSM-kw* well, I spose we could gang-ban him :)
<Panthor> kat, a.s.l?
* ^W|CKED^ looks at Panthor - how about respecting that there's a discussion going on
* Peaches`` writes in her calendar ..... jan 16 .... 2000 ..... kw discussion: One Sub, Multiple Doms, Group Medical Plan ..... How to Maintain a Stable Relationship .......
*`abi:@#BDSM-kw* lolol...^5 vixen :)
* Peaches`` puts her pencil down .......
* MistressAstra is curious is MsMatiia , encounters jelousy amongst her submissives???
* `slutkat` laffffs
* `slutkat` erases the *stable* part of Peaches memo and writes in *manger*
<MistressAstra> if, even
<Panthor> sorry
<`zee> i know this is hard for people and it is easier to make fun of the subject but it is something that is happening in this lifestyle and some of U/us are trying to learn and digest it
*`abi:@#BDSM-kw* he used to be on the akick list..perhaps he should return from whence he came?
<Peaches``> oh wait ........ is that spelt right, slutkat? manger?
* sweetslave{AF} nods
<Peaches``> you know, zee, i've been on BOTH sides of that coin ..... and i've never seen it work well yet ......
<Panthor> ok.....a meat market would be somewhat more sanitary :))
<MsMatiia> maybe envy more than jealousy, some subs (mostly because of their schedules) get to see me more often tha others
* `slutkat` nods to Peaches.. remember... *away in a manger*..not *away in a manager*
<^^blush^^> i don't see anything wrong with it.. i just know it isn't for me.. and feel that there are a lot of so-called "Doms" that take advantage of their power
* MistressAstra nods, thanks MsMatiia
<shoshin> zee..*nodding agreement* i had a totally biased view of Dom/mes with stables till i met Madame..
* |Karen agrees with blush
<`zee> Peaches`` that is a shame...though i do believe that for the people that truly believe in caring and loving more than one person at a time is feasible...it is work but not unreal
<LrdThomas> i'm curious, is there anyone here who knows of anyone living a polyamorous relationship under the same roof?
<Peaches``> and if it seems like i'm making fun of it .... well, yeah, actually i suppose i am .... cuz surely you can't take a subject like this seriously? i mean .... we're talking about people, adults, lives, families, children (sometimes offspring) ..... not widgets
<MsMatiia> But when a sub applies to a stable, I make it very clear to them that at the present time I am not looking for a one-and-only-one special sub
<sami^^> i for one know most of Tiia's subs and they are all more than happy to be with her
<SirLancelot`> blush...no Dom has the power unless the subs give it to Them
* Peaches`` nods to LrdThomas ..... yeah ..... several men and women all living together under 1 roof ..... polyamourous ..... oh wait, wasn't that a cult in california?
* BernieRoehl smiles
* SirLancelot` wow..did I say that?
<shoshin> i am not in Her stable, but am under Her protection & feel honored to be so
<MsMatiia> ty sami, sami has had the opportunity to meet some of my subs
<DukeDom> Peaches, if you don't want to serioussly discuss the issue, why don't you leave it to those that do
* lil^bear` sits quietly
* Peaches`` chuckles .........
<Peaches``> what-ever
* MistressAstra has had the pleasure of seeing MsMatiia , in action, and i see no complaints from her subs :)
<BernieRoehl> I've met some people who live in a BDSM "family", and it turns out to be a surprisingly stable arrangment. I've known such families that have last for years (which is longer than many one-on-one relationships do).
<LrdThomas> thankyou DD.
<sami^^> most even Tiia! lol
<MsMatiia> and some of youo here have met quite a few of my stable members
* vixen{KO} has seen such families too
<MsMatiia> The last Limelight I went to 4 of my subs attended.
<`zee> i know and met someone LrdThomas Sir.. it takes work but can be very rewarding
<BernieRoehl> It's not for everyone, but I respect anyone who finds an arrangment that works for them.
<MsMatiia> And they are all friendly towards each other too
* Kilted_One smiles at Bernies unconscious pun on stable
<shoshin> blush..actually i don't believe i can be part of a stable either, but i can learn much from Madame & Her subs
<BernieRoehl> Not unconscious at all, KO! :-)
<`forbidden> is bisexuality a 'requirement' of such arrangements?
* LadyDomi laughs
<MsMatiia> No, it is not for everyone, myself I do not have nor do I need a lover
<BernieRoehl> (I came up with the discussion topic, and the pun is implicit in it...) :-)
<sami^^> no forbidden bisexuality is not a requirement at all
<BernieRoehl> Not always, forbidden. But most of the ones I've met have involved bi subs.
<DukeDom> I wouldn't say it is a requirement forbidden .... but it can make for some fun :)
* shoshin giggling knowing that as hetero as Madame is She seems to get a lot of dates with gals *LOL*
<MsMatiia> yes, should be the "unstable" concerns of a stable ...lol
<`zee> i don't think it is a requirement `forbidden
<|Karen> are there any single monogamous Doms left in this world?
<MsMatiia> I'm sure there are!
<sami^^> looking!
<LrdThomas> I'd be very interested in talking to someone who lives poly, r/l, 24/7, under the same roof, here in our area. Cause quite frankly, i hear reference to successuful poly's, but have never actually seen one work, for more than a year.
* shoshin looking under tables & chairs
<|Karen> then where the hell are they?
<SirLancelot`> and where is Galadan tonight
* `slutkat` shrugs
<`slutkat`> werkin?
<InVisibleSilence> lol like i get the chance to be other than monogamous
<MsMatiia> Being in a stable, (sub's point of view) is not as self-satisfying as the Dom/me cannot take enough time out to thoroughly train you.
<|Karen> because my view of the community right now sees only the genuinely polyamorous, and the manipulative shysters.
<`forbidden> that i totally agree with MsMatiia
<SirLancelot`> what is the usual outcome LT
<vixen{KO}> a stable does spread the Dom/me thin at times
<sami^^> or spend the amount of time that some want Tiia, but they are always free to leave if not happy
<MsMatiia> But it does give you a chance to learn and experiment with your submissive fantasies and desires
<LrdThomas> what do you train a stable for Tia?
<shoshin> Madame... from the subs point of view might it not be a good answer to being trained..pending finding a monogamous D/s relationship?
<`forbidden> ah but one can do that without being 'in the stable'
<LrdThomas> they break up in disharmony.
<`forbidden> they can learn and experiment by simply being a play partner
<vixen{KO}> true forb
* MistressAstra as a Domme i have 1 live in submissive, but i play with many others, its casual play and i enjoy it that way,
<MsMatiia> Most of you already know I gave up my "contract slave" so he could go on with his life with a lady he was falling in love with
<sami^^> you certainly do Astra! lol
<|Karen> why is this OneDom/multiplesub thing the apparent norm of the community?
* MistressAstra winks at sami
<`slutkat`> i dont think it is Karen
<`forbidden> i don't see it as a norm Karen... i see it as a 'want'
<`zee> i did not thing it was the norm Karen!
<vixen{KO}> demographics pure & simple Karen....
<MsMatiia> because usually there are too many male subs and not enough female Dommes to go around
<vixen{KO}> and the fact that human nature is basically slutty at heart....LOL
<LrdThomas> is it the norm Karen? it isn't for me. I can have as many masters play with my slave as slaves i may play with.
<DukeDom> I'm aware of everal subs that have played with more than one Dom in an evening
* `abi smiles at vixen
<`zee> it is another branch of loving people..it is not only related to BDSM...
<`slutkat`> play is different than the committed one Dom/multi sub discussion i thought we were having
<Lotta_Skull> it is a liffestyle choice of both ME and MY #1 submissive to have another involved in our relationship..
<|Karen> it appears to be the norm to me.
<shoshin> slutkat *nodding agreement with you
* SirLancelot` agrees with kat
* Kilted_One thinks that there is a difference from casual play with others and others in a poly relationship
<MsMatiia> all my subs are free to call me anytime just to talk
<vixen{KO}> but sometimes the play is the extent of the committed part
<MsMatiia> they take me out to dinner, their company Christmas Party, etc.
* shoshin or e-mail about anything.. however trivial
<sami^^> agrees with vixen
<Lotta_Skull> sometimes yes vixen
<`forbidden> the way i see it i can love more than one person but i can't be collared by more than one Dom because there would be a conflict of interest.... yet a Dom can collar many subs and they either like it or they leave
* MistressAstra wonders if MsMatiia , plays with her subs at seperate intervals or together, i personally play at seperate times with each sub.
<malechattel> must run, sorry, be back later .... bert
<vixen{KO}> we are possibly confusing the fact that not all stables are more than JUST the play part of it....not all are heavily committed poly relationship/families
<MsMatiia> I have non collared at the present time ... collaring to me is still very special
<`forbidden> that i agree with vixen{KO}
<sami^^> you have one Tiia.....
<`slutkat`> forbidden, the Dom the sub picks should be to their liking... if they want a committed one on one, they shouldn't pick a mult-sub Dom..imho
<`forbidden> i agree with that kat
<Lotta_Skull> exactly vixen ...
<MsMatiia> but she has found a Dom now!
<Kirspin> I think a lot of subs ae looking for only true love, they seem to forget the "play" aspect of D's too
<sami^^> all right!!! glad to hear it Tiia
<LrdThomas> the doms responsibility, is to grow his charge, through physical and emotional exploration from a platform of safety and love.... and if he can do that, to more than one slave, where each is growing under those terms, kewl... but i don't think it's likely.
<|Karen> I'm sorry, this is too hard for me. I need to go.
<`forbidden> neither do i LrdThomas
<`slutshado`> agreed LrdThomas
<shoshin> LrdThomas..i know it is rare.. but not impossible
* `slutkat` thinks on that one.. LrdThomas... it might be possible...depending on the depth of the level of commitment i guess...
<`abi> I'd disagree LrdThomas...I've seen it happen
<MsMatiia> I collared a female submissive recently for her protection and for feelings of submission and respect for me
<LrdThomas> it might be.... as i said, but imho, highly unlikely.
* `slutkat` nods
<MsMatiia> She is now very happy with a Dom but still reports to me on occasion.
<`slutshado`> reports to you ??
<shoshin> Madame..one is happy to hear that..it gives one hope *s*
<MsMatiia> the only male I have collared was 5 years ago and of course my contract slave
<`zee> must going into a poly relationship always be seeking a very long term thing..in that if it fades after a year or so it is deemed a failure?
<^W|CKED^> Not if there's something learned from it, zee
<`abi> seems to me the majority of monogamous efforts don't last any longer in general zee
<Lotta_Skull> it is not working thats a fact zee...
<BernieRoehl> That's a good question, zee. Of course, it can also apply to monogomous relationshis
* shoshin agreeing with abi
<sami^^> agrees with abi
<BernieRoehl> Yes, exactly abi
<`zee> that is what i thought ^W|CKED^ Sir.. and yes `abi i agree with you there!..so any relationship where people grow and are enriched should be encouraged!
<MsMatiia> we should all be open to learn even if it means joining a stable for a while or trying play with different partners
<Lotta_Skull> ask either of My girls thier thoughts and I think love and respect evenly across the board will be heard ....smiles
<sami^^> hear hear!
<MsMatiia> it is a way of growing
<`slutshado`> i disagree...learning to play with different partners to me is not a requirement of growing
<MsMatiia> my subs love me in a way too
<`forbidden> i was once told by a Dom that has a stable that in this world of D/s monogamy and long term do not exist
<shoshin> i think the key here is consensual.. if the Dom/me can provide what the subs need & they know they are part of a stable & understand the meaning of that & agree to it..than it is fine
<`abi> people should seek out the kind of relationships that make them grow and enrich their lives...that certainly doesn't mean that everyone needs a polyamourous lifestyle...
<`zee> i think the main problem submissives have looking at it from the outside..is they see it as very one sided.... though to have a deep friendship, intimate or not with another person is the ultimate goal!
<MsMatiia> Yes, they do exist!!
<BernieRoehl> I would disagree with that Dom, forbidden -- I think they do exist.
<^W|CKED^> Maybe not for youserlf, shado, but each of us needs to figure out what we need to grow
<LrdThomas> i'm afraid i would have to disagree with that Tiia. I would like to think a slave i was considering, would value what she offers more than just throwing it into a stable, for the sake of experience.
* BernieRoehl agrees completely with abi
<MsMatiia> The reason I started my stable in the first place was that I could not find the sub I was looking for
<`slutshado`> agreed LrdThomas
<`forbidden> well i disagree with him too Bernie
<BernieRoehl> I think there's room for all kinds of relationships. It's just a question of what works for a particular group of people.
<`slutshado`> true Wicked and that is why i stated it is not a requirement......
<Lotta_Skull> wow long term is the idea or we could not strive for a strong bond..
<`abi> you're assuming that a shared relationship is somehow less worthy than a monogomous one LrdThomas...an erroneous assumption in my view
<LrdThomas> i assumed nothing abi.
<MsMatiia> and now I have commitments to my stable members, so I could not just "drop" them if mr. right ever did appear ...there, a disadvantage
* shoshin thinking consensuality is the base of the relationsip..if the subs know & agree to being in a stable, if their needs are being met, then it is fine
<BernieRoehl> There are also different... flavours of monogamy. I don't think anyone really gets all their needs (emotional, intellectual, spiritual, physical, social...) met by just one person.
<`abi> sorry LrdThomas...perhaps I misinterpreted "just throwing it" as a negative expression
* `zee nods and agrees with BernieRoehl Sir
* SirLancelot` nods at shoshin's wisdom
<MsMatiia> yes, shoshin, I feel if the Dom/me is honest, right up front, ther should not be a problem .... but there can be
* sweetslave{AF} agress with bernie
<MsMatiia> it is too easy to fall in love with your Top
<`slutshado`> no Bernie but that also does not mean one needs to play with the all of them
* shoshin thinking of a Dom Who asked for my submission without telling me He had another sub untill much later & how it broke my heart & my trust
* vixen{KO} agreeds Bernie....just as many heads of stables can exude the same flavours to all involved in their stable.
<`forbidden> that's why people have friends Bernie
<concubinary> make sure the sub/slave *really* agrees and is not just so needy for a relationship that they say it's okay
<`slutshado`> exactly concubinary !
<`forbidden> very true concubinary
<sami^^> but that is still up to them to decide concubinary
<MsMatiia> good point, concubinary,
<`zee> and as the sub/slave be honest with yourself as to what and where you will be happy before stepping into any relationship..poly or not
<concubinary> Sure sami, of course it is but lots of subs don't admit their real needs in many ways
<`slutshado`> but if their decision is for the wrong reasons sami ....should the Dom/me not stop it?
<MsMatiia> I'm not used to chat rooms so if I have missed a question, please ask again.
<sami^^> yes they should slutshado
<Lotta_Skull> as in any D/s relationship it has too be built on trust and honesty any amount of deciept will ruin it ...
<shoshin> concubinary..that is why i have a Protectoress.. to keep me on track so i don't make a choice because i am needy
<fluxie> Neither do Doms, concubinary :(
<concubinary> that's good shoshin
<`slutshado`> not just a D/s relationship Lotta_Skull.....any relationship...period
* concubinary nods at fluxie
<MsMatiia> One must never lie to their Dom/me, only fair that the Donm/me should never lie to them, either
<`becky> hi A/all
<Lotta_Skull> agreed slutshado....
* vixen{KO} still thinks the different flavours of this topic need to be accepted....not everyone is looking for the same thing in ANY relationship....even if it's just as a play partner, right?
<sami^^> so true Tiia
<`slutshado`> true vixen
<sami^^> right vixen
<`forbidden> very true vixen
* MistressAstra agress with MsMatiia , communication is everything in this lifestyle
<shoshin> MsMatiia.. lying to One's sub is not a problem with a stable.. it seems to be a human problem
<Lotta_Skull> yes vixen...
* Kilted_One agrees with vixen
<sami^^> no kidding shoshin
<concubinary> But Lotta_Skull when i am in a vanilla relationship i don't give over control of myself to nearly the same degree. If i give over control and responsibility as a consequence than the Dom better pick it up or i am just floating nowhere
<`zee> exactly vixen{KO}..i agree.. acceptance and non-judging... open minded in learning more of different peoples lives
<fluxie> subs dont have to be victims and Doms dont have to be liars.....and poly ppl need not be stereotyped either, sub or don single, or multiply partnered
<MsMatiia> so who says subs are human? just kidding
<`slutshado`> again Astra....communication is vital period....BDSM has no more claim on it than vanilla
<vixen{KO}> ^5's fluxue
<vixen{KO}> oops
* `zee nods to `slutshado`
<vixen{KO}> sorry
<fluxie> lol, who said Doms are Gods <g>
* ^W|CKED^ grins to fluxie
<MsMatiia> we all err, Tops and bottoms, we just have to try hard no to
<`abi> to an extent that's true vixen, but in another way we are all looking for a satisfying relationship...that just has alot of faces, and sometimes the faces come in the form of a group :)
<`slutkat`> they ARENT????
* shoshin sooo not tickling Madame..not tickling Her..thinking of the Catacombs..*g*
<Lotta_Skull> yes I understand that concubinary .....
<concubinary> i could name some fluxie lol
<fluxie> lol
<Lotta_Skull> I believe it takes alot more too hold together a poly relationship than a monogamus one ....for all parties ...
<fluxie> agreed entireley, a LOT less room for errr "polite "thinkint of you" discretion"
<BernieRoehl> I met someone at Black Rose
<vixen{KO}> indeed, it does throw a few kinks into the mortar LS
<vixen{KO}> ;)
<BernieRoehl> ...who had a stable/family happengin
<MsMatiia> In no way is it easy to operate a stable, it is very demanding
<BernieRoehl> It took a huge amount of their time and attention
<shoshin> yes if a Dom/me can't give time to one sub no way should They get into stabling
<`zee> as it should for all of the parties involved... i think emotions..rather reactionary emotions play heavily in stable or poly relationships
* `zee wonders if the definition 'stable' means more than 2 sub/slaves
<MsMatiia> yes they do
<Lotta_Skull> but also we all get more input and help from each other more shoulders to lean on so too speak...
<MsMatiia> stable is usually referred to as many more than two!!
<BernieRoehl> The only way they made it really work is by setting up a "hierarchy", and having more senior submissives be in charge of junior ones. It seemed to work for all of them.
* lil^bear` wiggles her toes
* fluxie thinks it is so much easier when the ppl sharing get along as well, more support, etc
<`zee> as in alpha females BernieRoehl Sir?
<BernieRoehl> Yes, in a manner of speaking zee
* shoshin has missed being part of a family & being under One's wing has given her that sense of family again
* vixen{KO} straightens up her first-gurl sash
<fluxie> the great thing is...some people prefer to be "alhpas" and others really do prefer being "betas" so it can work, if ppl understand themselves and the investment they are willing to make
<MsMatiia> some stables have more than one member present, mine usually see me alone, but sometimes with a female submissive friend of mine, too, or antoher Mistress
* Kilted_One thinks that is exactly how it works in gor....first girl, second girl ect
<BernieRoehl> The junior subs were typically newbies, who were looking for other subs for companionship as well as the 'protection' and guidance of an experienced Dom. From what they were saying, many of the newbies would stay for just a few months and then enter a one-on-one relationship with someone outside the "family"
<vixen{KO}> as in any/all possible positions in this wonderful lifestyle of O/ours, fluxie
<BernieRoehl> Some of the newbies would stay, and become more senior as the senior ones left. There was never any intent (and certainly no requirement) that anyone stay indefinitely.
<vixen{KO}> gotta love attrition
* fluxie certainly has the desire to be "first" on many occasions, but quite frankly, I know at this time that I am too busy in other areas of my life to invest myself that far...so being one of many is a relief to me in some situations
<SirLancelot`> seniourity plan...
<shoshin> Bernie.. some of us newbies don't know what we want or are prepared to handle, bu networking with other subs while being trained by a Dom/me familiar with many subs it helps us to learn so we make better choices in deciding on One Master/Mistress
* `slutshado` waves g'nite
<Lotta_Skull> often I find out things from one submissive that sheds light on anothers reactions/feelings and often a sub too sub relationship helps each in thier growth least we try too make it work that way for us...
* fluxie doesnt really think being first is necessarily "better" btw ;)
* shoshin hugging fluxie
* vixen{KO} agrees fluxie....what is best is the position you are comfortable with and enjoy
<shoshin> didn't think ya did fluxie*s*
<MsMatiia> yes, being "first" or number 1 slave, is also very demanding
<BernieRoehl> Another advantage they gave for that arrangement is that the family could check out any potential "suitor" Doms, so the subs who left were less likely to hook up with someone bad.
<Lotta_Skull> neither does april fluxie ...chuckles
<fluxie> well, sometimes I get the idea that that is the general assumption *shrug*
<concubinary> that's a bonus Bernie
* BernieRoehl nods
* `forbidden is just selfish right now *L*
<Kilted_One> what kind of shellfish forbies??
<`forbidden> would rather be number one and the only one all in the same breathe :)
* SirLancelot` smiles at forbidden..
<vixen{KO}> nothin wrong with selfish, sis.....as long as you're clear to everyone that's who ya wanna be
<BernieRoehl> And that's great, forbidden. I can see the value in both.
* `forbidden smiles softly
<`forbidden> and for a long time a 'newbie' like me thought that wanting that was wrong
<concubinary> forbidden - couldn't be one of many subs/slaves either. i am too jealous although being in a committed relationship and playing outside feels okay,
<lil^bear`> i myself would not want to be in a stable..but invoilved with a Dom and another sub..would be ok..no more then that
* fluxie would rather NOT have the pressure of being the "one and only" at this time..so it all balances out :)
<shoshin> forbidden.. i would too.. but i see an advantage to being trained by a Dom/me with experience & subs who know what they are doing so i make a good choice & go to a Master a better sub
<Lotta_Skull> hey the subbies can get selfish within the relationship....and the struggle goes on...
<concubinary> Hey, i would rather be shared by two busy Doms than a Dom and sub lil bear lol
<`forbidden> true shoshin but i find when there is a stable the Dom often doesn't have the time required to train one
<concubinary> We are all different :O)
<`forbidden> i learned that the hard way
<vixen{KO}> amen
<vixen{KO}> ;)
* lil^bear` would not want to be shared by two Doms
<vixen{KO}> oops....Sunday sermon, no?
<shoshin> forbidden.. i am not part of a stable but am blessed to have been taken under One's wing
<lil^bear`> <--would blush the whole time
<fluxie> agreed concubinary, I was also assuming my _own_ polyamory to keep me from feeling "bored" or "ignored"
<MsMatiia> you're right but you will get some experience and some training
<sami^^> comes down to different strokes for different folks
<concubinary> Ooooh but so much FUN lil bear!
* DukeDom smiles at lil^bear`
* concubinary smiles
* lil^bear` blushes... -> [#bdsm-kw] PING -`forbidden- thanks for the ping! at 21:54:59 on 01/09/00 ;) -=Glwdrk 4.0=-
<`forbidden> sometimes 'some' doesn't fill the need
<Lotta_Skull> one of the great things about people involved in this lifestyle is thier ability too accept were all different to some extent and work with it
* shoshin comes down to - if it fits within Safe- Sane& Consensual it is a part of the Lifestyle..it doesn't matter if O/others agree with it as long as the P/participants do
* BernieRoehl agrees with Lotta_Skull
* LrdThomas shakes his head in dismay at times at this community. It occurs to me, if one isn't sure the Dom or sub isn't right for them, then one should have enough common sense to say that, and take their time. Instead, i see too many who just jump in, or find a "protector" or some other nonsense, that really is just denying self-responsibility.
<DukeDom> bear ... do you mean never, ever ... at no time in the future could a situation arise which you might want to have 2 Doms?
<Lotta_Skull> admire it and norish it..
<EmpoweredOne> Correct LrdThomas
<lil^bear`> i am so reactive i couldnt handle two Doms...mentally or physically...they would have to be extremely careful with what they are doing..it doesnt take me long to get absorbed in what is happening..and hence i could end up hurt..and besdies,..would blush the whole time lol
* MsMatiia Careful ... never say never
* fluxie agrees that self responsibility is a big thing if trying to find or be involved in any "stable" situation (or tribe, or whatever)
<shoshin> LrdThomas... do You remember a day when girls would bring suitors home to meet their family? When the suitor would ask the father for permission to marry her.. did that negate her responsibility?
<LrdThomas> was this girl an adult shoshin, or a high school kid?
<shoshin> LrdThomas.. this was accepted custom no matter how old the woman
<SirLancelot`> age is realtive though LrdThomas..some mature more than others.
<LrdThomas> there is a difference between showing respect to ones parents, than relying on them to "approve" of a partner.
<sami^^> but approval was required all the same
<shoshin> i have asked MsMatiia to help me in my search.. because i respect Her & trust Her wisdom.. but the responsibility is still mine
<LrdThomas> and if one needs approval of their parents to take a mate.... so be it. sheesh!!!
<SirLancelot`> I'm sure some weren't approved and went through anyways
<fluxie> then again, there were the parents that listened to their children and the parents that saw their children as commodities
<shoshin> SirLancelot..yea..like my first marriage.. i shoulda listened
<SirLancelot`> lo
<sami^^> lol shoshin
<SirLancelot`> l
<^RedBeard> eveningA/all
<MsMatiia> I should have listened, too, Divorced twice I am ... lol
<SirLancelot`> thanks for ... making my point...shoshin...I think....
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's just after 10 pm. By all means, let's continue the discussion, but I'm going to remove the channel message and close the log.
<shoshin> SirLancelot..You are welcome *s*
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to MsMatiia for moderating tonight's discussion!
* `forbidden pounces on vixen{KO} and smootches everywhere
<shoshin> Madame..thank You *hug*
<`forbidden> been dying to do that for the last hour *L*
<MsMatiia> and ty Bernie for your help
<`forbidden> thanks MsMatiia :)
<sami^^> thank you Tiia :)
<fluxie> thanks to both of you, I'll have to read what I unfortunateley missed :)
<MistressAstra> yes thanks MsMatiia :)
<MsMatiia> you're all very welcome
<BernieRoehl> I should have the log posted later tonight
* vixen{KO} smooches back the forbes
* `forbidden tickles vixen{KO} :)
<Kilted_One> ty Matiia for your efforts
<shoshin> LrdThomas..have You been reading the mailing list about the "Acid Test"?
<MsMatiia> was this room restricted? I noticed one of mine show up and was ousted
* MistressAstra mentions to sami^^ , i sent you my icq again, cause i lost all my info on it last week, i put it in a pm, for ya :)
* shoshin was here to support MsMatiia
<MsMatiia> thank you shsoshin (hugs)
* shoshin even tho She is capable of supporting Herself
* SirLancelot` thought shoshin was here to say hi
<BernieRoehl> Ousted in what way, MsMatiia?
<shoshin> SirLancelot...HI!
* SirLancelot` smiles at shoshin
<SirLancelot`> lol
<Justice^> hi Ruffles
<Kilted_One> not that we know if Matiia...
<SirLancelot`> HI shoshin
<`forbidden> hi Ruffles^
* serbbaby has a question
* fluxie welcomes shoshin to the crew, hope you come back again :)
<LrdThomas> i read some of it shoshin.
* Ruffles^ waves hello to everyone :)
<sami^^> well ya gotta send it again Astra i didn't get it sorry :(
* MistressAstra pokes Ruffles^ :P
<LrdThomas> evening Ruffles. koc
<Kirspin> Thanks Ms.Tiia
<fluxie> what serbabby?
<MsMatiia> And hello and thanks to my friends, as I see quite a few of you out there